You didn build that !

in all cases?? I dont think so

That is frankly no less a silly argument. God made people (and animals) that are born attracted to people of their own sex. This is an undisputed fact that he has placed before you, if you choose to ignore fact then you choose to be ignorant. Who are you or I to tell these children of god they should reject the way their creator in his infinite wisdom intended them to be.   

There is no such fact that god created those who could not reject their predilection to marry a half dozen children… we as a society make those rules to protect our daughters, as do we make rules about incest to protect the children that maybe produced as well as the children who are subject to their parents wishes by the very nature of the relationship. It’s a classic case of the right to extending your fist ends at the end of my nose.. if your behavior does not negatively impact the rest of society it is simply not our business.

None of this belongs in political argument in the united states because here it is not within the scope of our government to restrict your life liberty or pursuit of happiness.    How people continually interpret that to mean we shouldn’t make millionaires pay their share of the taxes that defend their property and keep up the infrastructure that allows them to conduct commerce and yet we should define how people should defend the “moral” nature of our country I simply cannot figure out.   

There is a civility decline in our country being fed by those who wish to divide us to their own benefit, but from a moral standpoint one cannot argue we were in a much worse spot back when we condoned slavery and used guns to settle livestock disputes.

The same people decrying the morality decline due to the gays takin our marriages are often the ones that seem to have the biggest problem with the government providing some food or housing aid to a working mother so her kids don’t end up on the street hungry, but I don’t seem to remember Jesus having a problem with housing or feeding the poor.   

OverMyHead wrote: Hansel I struggle between my christian side which should not condone gays, and my libertarian side which says it is not my business. You leave out polygamy, and prostitution which both can meet your consenting litmus test but society views as deviant ( One that differs from a norm, especially a person whose behavior and attitudes differ from accepted social standards.) from a Biblical homosexual activity is deviant, polygamy in the old testament was interestingly not)The difference between the three is how effective there PR campaigns have been. All three were illegal at one time in this country. One has had success at changing societies views. For me there is a difference between tolerance of a behavior and sanctioning it. Jesus never met a gay Samaritan in the bible, but my guess his response would have been similar to the one he gave the prostitute at the well.First he forgave her, but then he said go and sin no more.

Lumping together being born a homosexual with choosing to have more than one wife or choosing to engage the services of a prostitute is a leap that most christians wouldn't think of doing. Certainly no thinking individuals would do so, nor would any who have studied the teachings of christ (which strangely also arent found in the old testament).

Fighting to the death to defend the freedom of finacial institutions to lend the government backed money out without regulation while prying thier way into the bedrooms of thier fellow citizens is a crazy type of hypocracy required by a party that struggles to amass a voting majority that will support the interests of the monied minority. The constitution which we are to believe conservatives hold so dear specifically does allow congress to regulate interstate commerce, but it sure doesnt say where the federal government should overrule state decisions about who can and cannot get married.

While I am not ignoring this thread ... Dave name 3 real economists that think stimulus spending delayed recovery during the great depression... That would be like finding 6 economists that say romneys economic plan wouldnt explode the deficit and raise taxes on the middle class... pure fiction.

GlassSeeker wrote: 62 wood wrote: You look at it as a civil right..... I see it as a risk to our future well-being. . It certainly does not pose any risk to my future. How does letting a gay veteran marry another man pose a risk to "our" future well being??????????? Please explain.

Besides the Biblical and moral issues which are argued, I'm sure you've heard of HIV and AIDS.

Just curious, when were you born?

GlassSeeker wrote: Perfect, so as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others, Agreed: So you do support gay marriage then, it certainly does not infringe on anyone elses rights. Romney does not feel veterans should have the right to pursue happiness. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/gay-veteran-steals-the-show-at-romney-endorsement-event/

First of all marriage licenses are issued by states, not the feds. It should never be a presidential issue. To somehow tie Romney s opinion of marriage to a stance against veterans rights shows how far you will go to discredit the man.

As I suspected you are using a liberal version of a "right" Marriage is not a right, it is a privilege. Rights are individual, and no one individual can be guaranteed marriage. Marriage requires a willing mate which some will never find.

Most Christians believe marriage was created by God for a man and a women. Why are gays pushing for marriage rather than civil unions. A civil union would give them all the benefits and legal protections without crapping on the christian institution. The reason is that they are pushing a far larger agenda.

The issue is on the ballot in Minnesota. Our liberal attorney general who is in charge of fair elections is under investigation for using his position and government resources (the AG website for one) to actively campaign against the amendment to keep the states definition of marriage as between a man and a women. The amendment does not seek to change any law, only to stop activist judges from writing the sates laws instead of the legislature like they did in Massachusetts.

There is also the slippery slop of moral decay. If gay marriage passes what is to stop expansion to more than two individuals, adults and kids, people and animals........ All the same arguments apply. Why should a sheep lover be denied happiness?

Again this is not a presidential matter. Just a nice diversion to take the argument away from the fact that our president sucks at his job. If you wish to base your vote on an irrelevant opinion on gay marriage over the issues of a very bad economy, well that is an interesting choice.

Hansel wrote: Hi Dave, The LG Chem battery plant that you linked to is in my hometown. Maybe you should balance Fox New's coverage with that of the local newspaper, which itself leans rather right. It is not as cut and dried as Fox would have you believe. Holland Sentinel LG Chem Article Even with furloughing people the construction of the facility alone was ~$300 million, most of which went to construction workers in Michigan. Probably some people I know. I'm sure they're happy about that. And I bet you would be too.

Hansel, Welcome back I hope all has been well.

factories are not supposed to be public work projects. They are supposed to pay for themselves and then provide future employment for workers. They must not have covered that in Obamas community organizer classes. Mitt has helped build companies like Staples that have built and are paying for 2300 stores and employ 51,000 people. This is what private companies do with money that the government does not confiscate and throw away.

GlassSeeker wrote: Why should gays not be allowed/have the right to get married? (Just the sheer number of gay marriages could do alot to help the economy.) There have always been gays in the military, so there are gay veterans who would like to be allowed to marry the person of their choice. How does that hurt/infringe on anyone else?

You look at it as a civil right..... I see it as a risk to our future well-being.
.

I don't consider myself a Democrat, but I have voted for some in the past, so I'll try to make my own sense of this ridiculous and over simplified list (in bold)...

BuffaloBFN wrote: Those buildings and Big Bird will have their own troubles on 1/1/13 when the Bush tax cuts go away and the military gets cut. From my good buddy Boortz: 12 Reasons to Vote for a Democrat When your family or friends cannot explain why they voted for a Democrat, they should be given this list. 1. I voted for a Democrat because I believe oil companies’ profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene, but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn’t. Those 4% sure are still doing them good, seeing as how ExxonMobile is the most profitable corporation on the planet. Heaven forbid any money go to the govt. especially since we don't need it to pay for anything legit, like reducing the national debt, paying for infrastructure, medicare, medicaid, defense, education, etc... 2. I voted for a Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would. I would argue that the govt. does in fact spend some of your money (not all) better than you do since that is kinda the point. Despite what many want to believe the most basic purpose of government is to pool resources to allow the group to do more for itself than any one individual could do on their own. Unless you want to build your own private road everywhere you ever want to go 3. I voted for a Democrat because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it. There are limits to free speech in fact, it doesn't mean that you get to say whatever you want. And quite frankly I think people on both sides of the political spectrum don't like speech against them. It isn't like Democrats have the corner on this market 4. I voted for a Democrat because I’m way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers, rapists, thugs, and thieves. Yes because Obama is coming to take away our guns... wait, wasn't this supposed to happen like four years ago... 5. I voted for a Democrat because I believe that people who can’t tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will disappear in ten years because of Global Warming if I don’t start driving a Prius or a Chevy Volt. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of weather vs. climate. Maybe I cannot tell you to the degree how warm it will be tomorrow, but I can definitely tell you that it will be colder in December than it is in July. Similarly I can tell you that if you go south it gets warmer, and if you north it will get colder. Global Climate Change is working over large areas and long periods of time, and predicts changes in AVERAGES. Personally I don't advocate Volts, Prius', or any other simplistic solution to Global Climate Change (GCC). Quite frankly it is going to take a hell of lot more than that, and I can tell you it is going to be painful. At the moment estimates of the cost of GCC is ~1% of GLOBAL GDP, and I have to believe that it will only increase. And don't tell me it is a hoax, since you've probably never spent one second actually studying it. And no, reading websites doesn't count as "studying." 6. I voted for a Democrat because I’m not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive. Of course everybody who is pro-choice wants babies to die. That is so far off the mark, and this is such a complicated issue. I don't think that there is anything incongruent about being pro-choice and anti-death penalty. You may not agree, but I think both could fall under a single understanding of human rights. 7. I voted for a Democrat because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits. Who is advocating this? Is this somebody's position? And even if it was, I think that the truth is that many "illegals" are already getting health care on your dime at the ER whether it is legislated or not. And you're also going to tell me that you want KIDS to not be educated. At least they won't get in trouble or anything if they aren't in school. I cannot speak to SS benefits, but I doubt many of them are getting any. Please prove me wrong. 8. I voted for a Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Democrats see fit. This one is so over the top that I don't even know where to start... 9. I voted for a Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution regularly to suit some fringe folks who would never get their agendas past the voters. Liberals call Conservative judges "activist" and Conservatives call Liberal judges "activists." The truth is that it is the judiciaries JOB to interpret the law. Also, there is something known as "tyranny of the majority" which is something that the judicial branch helps to guard against. Just because a lot of people agree with a law doesn't make it right, or even constitutional! 10. I voted for a Democrat because I think that it’s better to pay billions to people who hate us for their oil, but not drill for our own because it might upset some useless endangered beetle, gopher, or fish. This conflates two issues; 1) energy "independence" and 2) environmentalism/endangered species. To the first I don't think anybody "thinks that it's better" to buy oil from overseas but we still keep doing it. You tell me why... I can think of a few reasons mostly having to do with where the oil is and how our infrastructure has been built up over decades. As to the second, as an environmental scientist I hesitate to ever call a species "useless." To all those followers of the Bible out there I don't remember GOD saying "Just take care of the parts of my creation you are fond of, and well you know, just trash the rest I was just messin' when I made those anyway!" 11. I voted for a Democrat because while we live in the greatest, most wonderful country in the world, I was promised “HOPE AND CHANGE.” Hate to break it to you, but just about everybody thinks that they live in the "greatest, most wonderful country in the world." And boy, things sure were going pretty darn well four years ago as I recall. The last thing anybody wanted was hope for the future and a change in direction. 12. I voted for a Democrat because my head is so firmly buried in my butt that it’s unlikely that I’ll ever have another point of view. Again, this is not a quality that only the Left possesses. How many times have you heard the same accusation yourself? I think we'd all do a lot better if we did exactly what you say; dare to have another point of view. To that end I hope I've given you a little bit of my own point of view! Always open to conversation!

Those buildings and Big Bird will have their own troubles on 1/1/13 when the Bush tax cuts go away and the military gets cut.

From my good buddy Boortz:

12 Reasons to Vote for a Democrat

When your family or friends cannot explain why they voted for a Democrat, they should be given this list.

1. I voted for a Democrat because I believe oil companies’ profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene, but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn’t.

2. I voted for a Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

3. I voted for a Democrat because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.

4. I voted for a Democrat because I’m way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers, rapists, thugs, and thieves.

5. I voted for a Democrat because I believe that people who can’t tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will disappear in ten years because of Global Warming if I don’t start driving a Prius or a Chevy Volt.

6. I voted for a Democrat because I’m not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.

7. I voted for a Democrat because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits.

8. I voted for a Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Democrats see fit.

9. I voted for a Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution regularly to suit some fringe folks who would never get their agendas past the voters.

10. I voted for a Democrat because I think that it’s better to pay billions to people who hate us for their oil, but not drill for our own because it might upset some useless endangered beetle, gopher, or fish.

11. I voted for a Democrat because while we live in the greatest, most wonderful country in the world, I was promised “HOPE AND CHANGE.”

12. I voted for a Democrat because my head is so firmly buried in my butt that it’s unlikely that I’ll ever have another point of view.

Solyndra built an approx 400,000 sq ft building on a 30 acre property that did in fact include other pre existing buildings. As follows:

Solyndra used the new plant for the first phase of panel production. An older facility nearby finished and assembled the panels, former employees said. Problems developed at the old plant, when machinery wouldn’t work properly and needed constant repair, workers said.

GlassSeeker wrote: The buildings that Solyndra was in were pre existing. I've seen them there empty years before Solyndra was there.

Nope, Solyndra built it to build solar panels.....at taxpayer expense!


"You don't pick the winners and losers, you just picks the losers". Quote by Mitt Romney to Obama during the first presidental debate.   

Article on Solyndra Building....Sold for 30% of original value

We're voting this November for the 3rd time on gay marriage. It's been voted down twice, once before the democrat state legislature passed it and once to repeal it after they passed it. It's a very divisive issue in this state.

The buildings that Solyndra was in were pre existing. I've seen them there empty years before Solyndra was there.

I bet California construction workers just LOVED their paychecks from building the Solyndra plant too!

Or, as Nancy Pelosi has said in the past, maybe we should just put everybody on foodstamps and welfare to stimulate the economy. The more on the govt teet, the stronger the economy by extension one would assume!!   

eric lavine wrote: let our people starve and blame it on something else like a battery factory....gettig kinda use to the blame game

Almost missed this one. Since when do we let our people starve? We are giving out record numbers of food stamps and the #1 medical problem among the poor is obesity. Not hard to figure out. Give them free food and pay them to do nothing and they gain weight. Top that of with Michele Obama BLAMING IT ON THE FOOD! All we need is soda pop and trans fat bans, and more government interference to fix the results of the other government interference.