You didn build that !

Many large service sector employers are already pointing toward part time workers thanks to Obamacare. The best example is large corporately owned restaurant chains, they generally do not pay benefits to thier dishwashers, cooks, etc. But to avoid paying the 2000 pop they will limit their hours to part time only. So the dishwasher willing to do 60plus hour weeks to feed his family will now have to go find three jobs to do the same thing, still no benefits, but no overtime either. The unintended consequeences are a killer.

Believe one key factor not mentioned is the threshold, number of employees, to fall under those guidelines. 50 comes to mind however not certain that is it.

Historically we payed 100% healthcare for employee and also match IRA contributions up to 5% of gross as well as cover public transportation commuting costs for any/all full time employees.

Could argue required benifits either way, probably why I am pro union.

What concerns me is if all healthcare premiums skyrocket as a result.

62 wood wrote: john b wrote: 62 wood wrote: john b wrote: The private sector has already done that. According to the US Department of Agriculture, Fourteen percent of the cropland and 27% of pasture and other agricultural land also has foreign ownership. I couldn't find stats on commercial and industrial property, but there is a good bit of foreign ownership it that as well. I wonder if the foreign ag owners get a piece of this pie ? This happens to be one of the farms in our area getting a "little" subsidy. Appears they are not having problems with cash flow. Let me add that I know of a person who has bought two farms in the past 15 years and he told me he has paid almost nothing for them. I don't know for sure if the story is accurate, or if he is bragging.      John, Because of the potential income from farm land, they dont really care what they have to pay... it is not coming directly out of his pocket anyway. Ten years ago, land was selling in the $3,000 to $3,500/acre range. This year land is bringing $10,000- $13,000/ acre! I hear stories he uses the yearly subsidy money to buy more farmland. Can you say "mushroom"?

Yea, I sold too soon. I ended up with a small farm outside of Orion IL. I didn't have any use for it so I sold it. It is worth more today I'm sure.

What corporately owned big chains arent paying thier full time cooks and dishwashers healthcare?   

The dozen or so that I know employees of of all do and would have a hard time recruiting employees if they didn't.

There are certainly a lot of companies out there considering once the health care exchanges are set up going to a monetary contribution that the employee can spend in the exchanges rather than going to the effort of choosing and funding group insurance. We will have to see how that plays out in the long run but it is a market based solution that came out of conservative think tanks. The idea is that the companys can focus on thier business not health care administration, that the employee would have the ability to choose what level of insurance was suitable for thier level of comfort with risk, and that employees would be free to seek better employment opportunities without having to worry about changing thier health insurance provider (and possibly thier doctors, dentists, hospitals etc). Moving the choice of the provider to the person who experiences the benefits/costs/level of service, etc can only increase market efficiencys.

Health care costs have doubled since 2002.. the US has from a market standpoint the worst combination of government/employer funded and personally consumed insurance. Throw in mandates (and just plain old reality) that hospitals could not refuse to treat those that did not have the money to pay and you get a system that costs more than everywhere else and provides worse outcomes than any of our peers, and has the worst level of service possible. Either you need to once again allow some market forces to work by setting up exchanges or you nationalize the whole thing like the rest of the civilized world and you limit cost by regulation. Obama like Romney before him chose to give market forces a chance to work.

Yes I know that people are afraid that Obamacare is going to make their health insurance go up… why wouldn’t they be people have been telling them that for 3 years, but those are also the same people that were predicting a huge Romney win right up to the last minute… but people who do math for a living note that the net effect will be to reign in the growth of healthcare costs. Considering you can’t do anything about it at this point anyway why not wait and see the result before you lose a bunch of sleep over it.

If you are small (or large) business owner with a business model that involves having full time employees that you do not provide health care for.. well then I cry no tears for you, if a person who works hard 40 hours a week in the USofA can’t have what they give every slacker in Canada with a pulse just for being born in Canada then somewhere we have veered horribly off track. In the original vein of this bloated thread.. if your (this is not related to anyone participating on this thread dont take it personally) business requires employees that the government has to insure(via medicare) and feed (via foodstamps) then you didn't build that my tax dollars did.
   

JoeinNY wrote: What corporately owned big chains arent paying thier full time cooks and dishwashers healthcare?    The dozen or so that I know employees of of all do and would have a hard time recruiting employees if they didn't. There are certainly a lot of companies out there considering once the health care exchanges are set up going to a monetary contribution that the employee can spend in the exchanges rather than going to the effort of choosing and funding group insurance. We will have to see how that plays out in the long run but it is a market based solution that came out of conservative think tanks. The idea is that the companys can focus on thier business not health care administration, that the employee would have the ability to choose what level of insurance was suitable for thier level of comfort with risk, and that employees would be free to seek better employment opportunities without having to worry about changing thier health insurance provider (and possibly thier doctors, dentists, hospitals etc). Moving the choice of the provider to the person who experiences the benefits/costs/level of service, etc can only increase market efficiencys. Health care costs have doubled since 2002.. the US has from a market standpoint the worst combination of government/employer funded and personally consumed insurance. Throw in mandates (and just plain old reality) that hospitals could not refuse to treat those that did not have the money to pay and you get a system that costs more than everywhere else and provides worse outcomes than any of our peers, and has the worst level of service possible. Either you need to once again allow some market forces to work by setting up exchanges or you nationalize the whole thing like the rest of the civilized world and you limit cost by regulation. Obama like Romney before him chose to give market forces a chance to work. Yes I know that people are afraid that Obamacare is going to make their health insurance go up… why wouldn’t they be people have been telling them that for 3 years, but those are also the same people that were predicting a huge Romney win right up to the last minute… but people who do math for a living note that the net effect will be to reign in the growth of healthcare costs. Considering you can’t do anything about it at this point anyway why not wait and see the result before you lose a bunch of sleep over it. If you are small (or large) business owner with a business model that involves having full time employees that you do not provide health care for.. well then I cry no tears for you, if a person who works hard 40 hours a week in the USofA can’t have what they give every slacker in Canada with a pulse just for being born in Canada then somewhere we have veered horribly off track. In the original vein of this bloated thread.. if your (this is not related to anyone participating on this thread dont take it personally) business requires employees that the government has to insure(via medicare) and feed (via foodstamps) then you didn't build that my tax dollars did.

They do not have to offer insurance. State laws! And a mandate is control or a command to have insurance. Which goverment will enforce. Which is bologna. These laws and taxes added, small business cant afford it. Sometimes they will pay more because they do not offer insurance. The thing that is frustating, there will be no more 40hr employees anymore. 2 jobs 20 a pieace. Bottom line is, the crap shouldnt be happening anyway.

Joe your soooooooooooooooo wrong about what this is costing me.

Health care season (for) me is open right now.

To keep the same basic plan from last year ($600 mo.)
it is going up 24% PLUS I HAVE TO HAVE a suppliment
because Federal BC+BS dosen't cover ALL of what is
mandated in ob care.
This is the top shelf, best ins. offered.
Plus a suppliment for eye care and one for dental.
It looks like in January health care will be a "good bit"
over $1000 a month. According to the BS+BC rep I spoke
with Monday.

A good freind is a delivery room nurse she had
a woman in there that is a crack addict and an alcoholic
delivered a 7 month premie. (25 and her 6th child)
The baby convulsed and was flown to U of Pitt the best
in the country.

The hosp. asked if the woman would sign a consent to
have her tubes tied at the time of delivery - they
had to pry the cell phone from her hand.

BUT THE ACLU VOIDED THE SIGNATURE BECAUSE SHE WAS UNDER
STRESS AND MEDICATION.

Science has to stop short of playing God.
I try to be a good Christian everyday.

We do things to Human Beings that would never
be done to a dog.

I'm OK with death, made a few laps around the rock
blew a motor or 2 had a couple of high speed blow
outs too.
I want to take my last breath knowing I'm used up
4 flat tires 300,000mi on the motor skiding in side
ways BUT if someone gets me to the hospital while
I'm still warm. Well then, I'll be treated for 30 days
like i would'nt treat my dog and you will pay for it.

"A goverment big enough to do everything for you
is big enough to take everthing you have"

JoeinNY wrote: What corporately owned big chains arent paying thier full time cooks and dishwashers healthcare?

Darden Resturants made this announcement this summer. They are an Orlando based company that owns the following resturants:

Red Lobster
Olive Garden
Long Horn Steak House
Bahama Breeze
The Capital Grill
Eddie V's
Yard House

They are cutting all full time staff to part time so Obama Care will not effect them.

I believe there are going to be a lot of I told you so's flying around here in a few years. Unfortunately being found right will not go very far as compensation for what was lost.

OverMyHead wrote: They got excited and asked if I could drive a truck......

LMFAO!!!

OverMyHead wrote: I liked this. Folks, we're screwed.

Sad isn't it Dave. This Obama is for REAL.

Donald80SN wrote: JoeinNY wrote: What corporately owned big chains arent paying thier full time cooks and dishwashers healthcare?    Darden Resturants made this announcement this summer. They are an Orlando based company that owns the following resturants: Red Lobster Olive Garden Long Horn Steak House Bahama Breeze The Capital Grill Eddie V's Yard House They are cutting all full time staff to part time so Obama Care will not effect them.

Well I was about to announce that I was never going to eat at any of those restaurants again and publish a list of more respectable establishments… but then I checked and Darden Restaurants does in fact offer health insurance to all of its full time employees. They are worried that due to requirements that people now have health care more of them will take them up on the offer and increase their costs, and have experimented in 4 markets with reducing the amount of full time positions in their restaurants as a result.. which is their prerogative. But again this is a more nuanced set of facts than the woah is me gloom and doom being presented.   I spend a lot of time in restaurants both locals and chains, have good friends that manage applebees, chilis, buffalo wild wings, cheesecake factories, etc. It is a tough business to keep talented staff, and without them in most markets you fail and quick (exceptions are stores that don’t need repeat business due to high travel traffic.. airport locations, along interstates, near sports arenas, conference centers, etc) .   I suspect that after posturing a bit they will end their experiment with the .25% of their stores they started it in.

Remember people support your local single mothers and tip generously

On a lighter note, did anybody see this? Political Kombat

Mechanics or not working in a restaurant during the rush is hard work, it only takes one of those mechanics to send a kitchen into vapor lock that ruins the dining experience for a bunch of patrons to the point where it will effect next month’s sales. Managing one of those places is like herding cats, you take away the ability to work the people that actually work hard and show up for their shifts more than 30 hours and you have to throw in the mix another bunch of people with nothing to lose but a part time gig washing dishes and my bet is you vapor lock a bunch, start staffing more manager hours, lose sales and increase costs even in the corporate assembly line type places.
I don’t disagree that many of the people in these restaurants have chosen not to have benefits, but I have known a great deal (again typically young single mothers) that work at the chains only because they get those benefits, otherwise they would be bartending part time someplace where they didn’t have to stay till 4 am cleaning out frozen drink machines. It is always a struggle for someone on the low end of the income scale and on the low end of the risk scale to choose to pay anything for insurance when they can likely take the risk and get away with it. That behavior ends up costing the rest of us who are unwilling to gamble with our or our families lives.
Obamacare doesn’t make anyone do anything, it simply attempts to put a value to the effect on the rest of society of the choices of individuals that choose not to have healthcare and businesses that choose not to offer it and then assesses them that penalty. Assigning a value to negative externalities to increase market efficiency is a basic economic concept, it used to be a building block of conservative solutions- which is in fact where Obamacare originated – a conservative think tank. But that was back when the conservative leadership used to think, now they seem content to feel.
I can’t accept that America can’t afford healthcare for all of its citizens when every other modern country can. Tackling the health care problem is how you tackle the manufacturing job problem in the US. I would rather we separate health care from business entirely and not make business owners or self employed people have to dilute their efforts by concerning themselves with healthcare. The ability of labor to move from freely job to job based on compensation alone used to be considered a requirement for a functioning labor market.

Can’t be any worse than the state of health care in American now. For those of you whose insurance cost is going up.. sorry to hear that but
mine more than doubled in the bush years and we let go a lot of manufacturing personel and outsourced sub assemblies as a result - this is not a new trajectory due to Obamacare..

I've heard most health care costs are incurred during the last 6 months of a person's life. At some point will either the doctors or bean counters start saying no when there is little hope for the person anyway...

Joe, you are a persuasive writer. I hope you know what you're talking about. At times I do wonder if you're on the Obama payroll.

Think what you may, this is real world.....
We have been talking with some of our subs (electricians, plumbers, contractors) A LOT of them are considering downsizing and/or completely eliminating their crews.

They are tired of not making any money. Construction jobs are scarce. Everything is being bid tight to get a job. That, coupled with the rising expenses of having employees is forcing these decisions.


FORWARD! ........ yeah, right.