Illinois gun BAN???????

john b wrote: Can someone tell me, what is the purpose of high capacity magazines other than killing people? We have 30 round mags in the AR15s in our squad cars and we did a lot of training with them. Like military weapons, their only purpose is to kill people. Is there something I am missing? I will readily admit, the 223s are a very fun weapon to shoot targets and plink with, but a 10 round mag is just as much fun.

Honestly, A valid point could be made here. Not that it's a comprehensive reason to have a 30 rounder but for me, depending on what type of shooting I'm doing it is easier than reloading twice. But then the argument could be made for having 3 10 round mags ready to go. Someone practicing tactical stuff at the range or competing in an event, or taking a carbine class could very easily dump 10 rounds, drop a mag , dump ten more, drop a mag and so on. Probably would add what? Maybe 5 seconds to the whole process of expending 30 rounds? You obviously have some carbine experience John so I'm curious as to your thoughts. Is an added 5 seconds accurate taking into account 2 combat reloads over 30 straight rounds? I'm not really sure that this would change the end result a whole lot, but maybe? Each situation would be different I guess & we could probably "what if" these scenarios forever . Alot of people use these rifles for home defense as well and they are very effective for that purpose. I am assuming as a LEO, that you would want a 30 rounder for the most available protection when you encounter a life altering situation. In a world where seconds count, but the police are minutes away, why should I as a homeowner/ protector of my family be denied the same level of protection as a police officer ? I guess there really is no straight foward solution.

Thanks for chiming in. I have alot of friends/customers in law enforcement and it is always interesting to hear their opinion on these sorts of things. Stay safe out there.

ETA: Also a very good point that you and Mike Hunter make about the justice system failing us do to certain circumstances as well.

Mike

Keep running with the all or nothing argument.. if you “win” and get no regulations then enough people will die in public enough ways that eventually you will end up with nothing. Same reason why we can’t balance a budget in this country, half the country assumes they are a complete genius and the other half are complete idiots. The give them an inch and they will take a mile argument seems pretty silly considering we had an “assault weapons ban” in place for 10 years and it didn’t exactly result in them coming to pry your guns out of your cold dead hands.

Responsible owners advocating for the rights of uneducated morons to buy high powered high capacity toys and leave them lying around just don’t make any sense to me, but that is the all or nothing argument. If you want all gun owners to be grouped together, which without regulation/training/certification/licensing of some form they must be then any type/shape/capacity of gun we don’t want in “their” hands we can’t allow you to have in your hands and therefore you allow the 99.8% to be ruled by the .2%   When you get irresponsible bans on shapes of guns – know that it will be largely because the NRA was representing the rights of its corporate sponsors and not its members.   

It's kind of funny how so many people point their finger at the NRA itself as being the cause of any legislation that can't get passed. Like they're this huge organization that controls congress. They're the oldest civil rights organization in the country, but they only have about 4M members. What makes them powerful is not their money or their lobbyists, but the gun owning public in general that supports their position on the 2nd amendment.

Joe,
I gotta tell you, as much as I like you and as intelligent as I think you are, that last post made you sound just as closed minded as the people oppsosite you that you are pointing out as being so one sided. Drownings cause more child deaths per year than firearms. Do we ban pools? No. Because drownings usually only occur to one person at a time. It is also usually solely due to someone being negligent (go figure). I see zero difference between a child drowning every day for a month, or 30 children drowning once a month. The tragic outcome is the exact same, especially for the families. You just don't hear about it on the news because one child perishing isn't nearly the headline as 30 all at once.

I don't see anyone here saying "all or nothing". What I see is a group of people who have obviously proven that no matter what side you are on or what facts are presented from either side, there is an arguable abuttal to every comment and every statistic and alot of it is logic and makes sense. From both sides. Seems like good healthy convo to me and no one is advocating mayhem and death by gun to everyone. One innocent gun death is too many. One of the things that has been lost in the media coverage lately is that these shootings have been just as much of an atrocity to responsible gun owners as they have been to people who hate guns. I personally, live a quality, legal lifestyle and am tired of being looked down upon as a criminal or being treated like I approve of or don't care about the deaths of innocent kids because I have a 30 round magazine. Maybe if more people had discussions like this everyone may realize that the root problem is a sum of several things combined, not just guns, and a solution that works can be found. I am against any further gun legislation being passed out of spite. I want all the angles examined and every option on the table when decisions are made. The big rush now in the govt is to get something in place ASAP to stop these tragedies. I find it ironic that protecting our kids wasn't that important when the current administration was cutting the funding established by Clinton for keeping our kids safer at school. If they are our most important asset, why is that funding being cut, but the current administration is giving themselves a raise? These politicians don't care about your kids. All they care about is their own personal agenda.

And you're right....no one came to pry anyone's guns out of their cold dead hands during the last ban, but gun crimes didn't go down either. Columbine happened in 1999. Right in the middle of the last ban.

Mike

Qualified expert with a side arm(92F) and a rifle( evil M4A2) and would want a 30 round magazine when needed. That said, compare hits on target paper vs. a moving shooting target. Ironically the best trained military shooters in the world(ours) confirms one kill with as many as a hounded 30 round magazines. When it comes to me and my family I'll keep my P Mag's. I also use that same magazine for hunting, 3 event, and plinking. "I don't always shoot, but when I do it's with a tactical advantage".

Well said Joe.

JoeinNY wrote: All my last post states is that gun owners not looking to lose thier rights should do something to seperate themselves from those who should I agree. because 99.8% of gun owners are law abiding that we shouldn't do anything about the other .2% is not productive in a country where 53% of the people don't own guns. I haven't seen anyone say that "nothing" should be done with those .2 % I think we all unanimously agree that something absolutely should be done. No one really knows what that is though Still dont know why people need to bring guns, religion, and politics to a perfectly good boating site... Awe, C'mon man! this is the Off Topic section ,lol.

    Mike

FWW, I think it is ironic that at one point when we were in Iraq we allowed each household to keep a Kalashnikov yet some politicians want to take them away from the homes of Americans.

"As for fear mongering I would offer you the example of smoking bans. They went from smoking sections to no smoking in government buildings, then indoors at all work places, outdoors at workplaces, indoors at bars, outdoors at bars, in cars with children, private apartment/residences and even outdoor venues like parks, and the anti smokers do not seem to yet be satisfied. All baby steps on a slippery slope of regulating a legal product. I don't have to make this stuff up. The left is stranger than fiction."

cigarettes dont kill people only the smoke kills

jbach wrote:     JoeinNY wrote: Well there we have it - name calling, dehumanizing of those with different opinions, fear mongering, false statements, and other assorted nonsense - all marks of stupidism i read none of that, was it racist too?

Thanks for having my back Josh, but even I did not rule out assorted nonsense.

And I agree with Josh on the ban issue. Because all you have to do is spend 2 minutes listening to any politician talk about guns and none of them are talking about any type of regulation that does not contain a ban of some sort. That is a fact. The reason they are pushing so hard right now is that they know without a doubt that if they can't get a bill passed RIGHT NOW while the disgust of the Newtown tragedy and the heartfelt loss of all those children is still fresh in the minds of this countries population, that they will never get it done. Ever.

   Mike

No one under 21 being allowed to carry a gun is going to mess with the military .

Guns save children?

I find it disheartening that in the video in josh's link, that the lady conducting the interview knows more about the ins and outs of firearms than Bloomterd. This was exactly what I was pointing to when I said it is a dangerous line to be walking with these politicians. Their proposed legislation is based solely on misinformation, fear and personal agenda.

Here is a link to Info on Feinstein AWB. Sorry for the link to the Evil NRA, but it was the quickest one i could access.


On Dec. 17th, Feinstein said, "I have been working with my staff for over a year on this legislation" and "It will be carefully focused." Indicating the depth of her research on the issue, she said on Dec. 21st that she had personally looked at pictures of guns in 1993, and again in 2012

If nobody sees the "WTF" in the part in red, then I feel sorry for you. These people are writing all of our laws, not just the ones on guns. Bad juju.

Mike

I just took time to watch the Bluminidiot-berg interview that jbach linked to.

Is that guy serious? Somebody needs to take that boy hunting and show him what its all about. He certainely does NOT have a clue!