Engine build opinions? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21172 |
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You really need to know what youre doing to get anything meaningful out of the desktop dyno software. Alan (81nautique) had a pretty good set up for the Ford 351w that was getting pretty consistent, reliable numbers. Modeling the exhaust manifold flow was a tricky part. I bought a copy and tried starting from scratch on our BFN's 454 and could not get the software to give me anywhere near believable numbers. Theres a learning curve for sure.
Im not convinced the Air Gap will yield any measurable performance gain over the standard RPM, but I doubt it will hurt either. Marine engines run pretty cool in general, and dont have a ton of air flow through the motorbox, unlike a car.
While those are all true in regards to the benefits of going to a roller cam / lifters, I dont think that $1500 upgrade is on the table. I was talking about roller rockers. Apples and oranges. |
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77 SKI
Groupie Joined: October-11-2012 Location: Lake Winnebago, Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Nope, I already have my cam and flat lifters. We have been discussing rockers, which are already in the mail heading my way. |
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77 SKI
Groupie Joined: October-11-2012 Location: Lake Winnebago, Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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So the Air Gap is going back to Summit. If you look at SBF specs and compare the Performer RPM and the RPM Air Gap,there is no difference between the heights. If you look at the 351W...yep! The Air gap is about an inch taller. RPM 4.8", Air Gap, 5.75...
I will say Summit was awesome on the exchange. The guy on the phone was laughing when I said all I had was a Jegs box to send it back in. I wrote SUX next to it and he was happy! Anyway I found a low profile flame arrestor. PCM 2.5 X 7 inch should work. I sure hope I don't eff this up! |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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I don't think you can use Roller Lifters on a non-roller lifter cam. I could be mistaken, but I have never heard of that combination before. Roller rockers are a good friction reducing mod. I am still of the opinion that the Air Gap is the best choice. Chrysler RB manifolds were all air gap style from the factory. I am a Ford man at heart, but I have to admit the guys at the Chrysler Engine division provided some really cool stuff for the street and marine use. All of it was basically de-tuned racing parts. A little less timing here, a mild cam there and you have a reliable family car engine that make loads of torque. I admit Desktop Dyno is a guess, but it is an educated one. And it is better than investing a ton of money and time exchanging parts. And you're right, it does have a learning curve to it. It is only as good as the data that is fed into it. I picked mine up for a slightly less than retail (gotta love torrent files). Stay with it, Jeff. You will have a safe, reliable Ford Windsor engine before you know it. (I hate it when people call them motors! Motors are electric.) |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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Tim (or Jeff),
Is the 351W Pleasurecraft a right hand rotation engine or left hand? If right hand, I will agree with Tim's assessment of Roller cam/lefter price. (It may be even higher.) But if they turn left, Lunati makes a killer Hyd roller cam for the 351W for $300 smackers. My buddy, Shane Puchon, at Lunati likes us marine engine guys. His boys in the back love making up custom grinds for marine use. And they don't ask for your arm and leg in the process. |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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Almost forgot! These guys:
http://www.performanceracingengine.com/ CAn make anything and they have a CNC block dimensioning, boring, and line boring machine. Gordon can turn out 20 completely dimension and prepped blocks where the old methods turn out one. The site shows the sytem in process. And Gordon with work with you on building, too. If you want them to do the machining and you do the building, he will do it. And he can then dyno your completed assembly and dial in the jets or fuel flow and ignition. The bottom line: when you're done, you have very predictable performance from an engine that you built and has been broken in with a controlled environment system. Gordon is in Bethalto, IL. He tells me that he is the only shop within 300 miles that can do what they do. I would check around your area and see if a shop has anything similar. Peace. |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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77 SKI
Groupie Joined: October-11-2012 Location: Lake Winnebago, Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Hmmmm.. Found out yesterday that Hi-Tek exhaust manifolds out of Australia are actually made in their factory in China. Apparently have been for the last 6 years.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tony, You link is bad! |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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Aww, phooey!
I have sent an email to Gordon to send me a link to their site. In the meantime, here is their Facebook site: Performance Automotive at Facebook |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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Oh this is ridiculous! I can get to the site if I don't use the link, but the link send me somewhere weird. Let's try....this:
http://www.performanceracingengine.com/Contact-Us.html Performance Automotive |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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Okay that's got it.
You will just need to go to the home page after you get there to see how impressive the shop is. PerFormance Automotive |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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This one works...for sure! Use this one! |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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PAPA
Senior Member Joined: October-06-2009 Location: Fremont, In Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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To answer your question about anyone putting a performer under a late 70's engine cover, I have a 77 nautique with the performer and a holley wedge plate,marine demon carb with a K&N flame arrestor. It all fits fine under the cover. Putting on your hiteks will be a chore as you have to modify the width of the cover to clear them. Joe in NY has a great step by step on how to do it in his orignal stroker build from a few years back.
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77 SKI
Groupie Joined: October-11-2012 Location: Lake Winnebago, Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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This is the first I've heard that the Hi-Teks will not fit under the cover. Are they too tall or too wide? I tried the search on this site and it won't work for me. It just keeps processing and no results.
Would you have a link for an info on why the HiTeks won't find under the cover? Thanks, Jeff |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21172 |
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Hopefully Joe will chime in... I cant remember which flange angle he chose. I dont *think* the standard angle will require box modification, as they should basically have the same external dimensions as the PCM pyramids. Of course, I havent tried to fit mine under the 2001 curvy box, or the flat top box used '70-82. No issues fitting under the stock box on my '90 though.
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77 SKI
Groupie Joined: October-11-2012 Location: Lake Winnebago, Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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To me they don't look any larger, but you never know until you get them on. I really don't want to do anything to the engine cover. Not sure I can match the vinyl. Is it a width issue or what?
Hi-Tek advertises that they are the same size as stock. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21172 |
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Take a look at Joe's thread to see what he did. He blew out the sides of the motorbox to clear the Hiteks and was able to reuse the vinyl.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13514 |
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Joe spec'd his manifolds wider so he could fit tall valve covers.
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hotboat
Gold Member Joined: March-28-2009 Location: Conn Lake Pa Status: Offline Points: 814 |
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Mine didn't fit on the 78 but they were in stock in California and could have been ment for an io, won't know til you try
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Brian
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TX Foilhead
Grand Poobah Joined: February-01-2009 Location: Kingsland TX Status: Offline Points: 2076 |
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I'll give you $500 for them, I think they will squeeze into the Excel just fine.
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PAPA
Senior Member Joined: October-06-2009 Location: Fremont, In Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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I don't know how to link you to Joe's thread but his hitek cover mods start on page 7 of his thread " A 351W (stroker) from scratch ".
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77 SKI
Groupie Joined: October-11-2012 Location: Lake Winnebago, Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Then I should be ok. I had them made to resemble stock. |
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cphase
Gold Member Joined: May-11-2010 Location: Newnan, GA Status: Offline Points: 795 |
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77 SKI
Groupie Joined: October-11-2012 Location: Lake Winnebago, Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Tear down is almost done. Rings are good and tight, in fact the pistons hardly show any wear. They still have the factory grooves on the sides. Tonight, replace the rear main seal. Pull the balencer, replace the cam, water pump, heads and and get ready for paint. I am painting it old Ford blue. It is currently Ford dark blue. It looks like someone, maybe even PCM painted it the dark blue. Does anyone know what the correct color was for PCM in the mid 70s? |
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1977 Southwind 18
1994 Ski 1997 - 2008 Ski (Promo) 1977 Ski (current) |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21172 |
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That dark blue is the original PCM color from that vintage. The old Ford blue is a lot lighter... ask Chris how he feels about the color selection! ReidP could point you in the right direction on both the blue and green (manifolds) if you wanted to keep it original.
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77 SKI
Groupie Joined: October-11-2012 Location: Lake Winnebago, Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Thanks. I kinda thought it was painted by PCM.
I like the lighter old Ford blue. I am going for the early 70s Ford hot rod look with the intake, Boss style valve covers etc. When I found out the boat has been repainted and new interior different then it's orgional color, I'm no longer worried about keeping it orgional. This boat came from the factory GOLD... |
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1977 Southwind 18
1994 Ski 1997 - 2008 Ski (Promo) 1977 Ski (current) |
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77 SKI
Groupie Joined: October-11-2012 Location: Lake Winnebago, Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Got it painted last weekend. I love the color. Started looking at the Holly rebuild and turns out the secondaries were frozen shut. They won't even open. I got the boat last July and have been running a Holly 300 since then. I can't wait to see how this boat runs with all of the new parts AND a complete 600 cfm! |
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1977 Southwind 18
1994 Ski 1997 - 2008 Ski (Promo) 1977 Ski (current) |
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65 'cuda
Platinum Member Joined: July-12-2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
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My Hi-teks touch the motor box on the '73, they are that close.
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Smithfamily
Platinum Member Joined: December-26-2007 Location: Orlando, Fl Status: Offline Points: 1602 |
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Have you no pictures of the process?
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Js
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