Mission: You Wanna What? [LOL] |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Thats my guess too Peter. Reid has ground the hook out of more than one and really improved the performance. Zach, where you guessing your hp will be with yours? 300hp pushes that hull into the mid 50's pretty easily.
Edit: 320-340hp, eh Zach? Id say you could be flirting with 60 in that hull. The small exhaust ports will hurt you though... keep a 3" conversion in the back of your mind! Wouldnt be easy to go back if you dropped in a smaller (proper) V6 though. That hp range would put you in similar company with Marshall Morgan's '70 Stang with the 340, which I believe has GPS'd in the 57mph range. |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Zach, are you staying with the original 2.5" exhausts?
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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i have g.p.s.d mine but only touched on my top speed for maybe 10 seconds so it probably doesnt count . i did find my boat to run its fastest and most stable in chop
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Chop for sure! A little air under the hull is helpful. Next time you break out the GPS, make sure youve got a full tank of gas and throw a few people in the back seat. What did you hit on the GPS last time? I dont recall hearing. Oh and LH prop with a LH drive boat makes a good match... prop rotation will counteract the driver's weight. It'll back up funny though. |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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Tim, Wanna play "Flight Instructor"? I figure with a little chop, the SW may get a little air time. The GPS I plan on using is my TomTom I use for navigating. Joking aside, would it work for this project? |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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Looks like us guys gots some fast boats haha. I will talk dad into 3 inch tips later. He is scared of glass work. I re glassed in the rudder port wood and the bilge pump mounting wood. I'm not scared!!! We plan on running it a season or two. I will eventually re string it and re gel the deck/ hull because the tangerine and cream scheme is just too damn cool. See an orange trend there tony ;). I would love to get that thing to green lake to play. Early am GPS runs this year?? We should get some ccf.com green lake 40, 50, 60 mph club badges or plaques for fun haha. My dad freaks out at the idea that the motor I put together for the boat might push it to 60 mph haha. If its close I will spring for a cam upgrade with the advent of the vortec heads into the mix. Wait till I build the motor for his cuda ;). He just papaws around now but I still want it to run when I drive it! Ha.
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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Bruce, 2.5 inch for now. Couldn't talk dad into it yet.
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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I dreaded changing ours over to 3", but when we finally did it, it wasn't such a big deal. I've got a pair of 3" to 2.5" SS reducers if you need them. I had ordered them thinking we could avoid cutting the transom.
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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Hmm pm me with prices bruce. Or what you used for the conversion.
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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with a full tank and my son behind me in the back we touched on 62 but 57 to 59 is a regular wide open blast
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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Wow my boat is going to be freaking scary haha.
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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that was a 61 dad 62 jesus 63 for a few seconds then i bailed it wasnt going any faster but i bet yours will . i never kept any speed over 55 for any length of time
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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peter1234
Grand Poobah Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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that was a 61 dad 62 jesus 63 for a few seconds then i bailed it wasnt going any faster but i bet yours will . i never kept any speed over 55 for any length of time i wonder what my new formula will run i hope in the mid to high fifties`
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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Peter, you are making me thing I need to get an orange and cream helment and one of those 100 mph race life jackets haha.
What'd you say the formula had in it? That 305 Sidewinder I swaped heads, cam, intake, carb on ended up being a consistant 65mph boat bouncing off the 5000rpm rev limiter at 3/4 throttle. It was a hairy little boat that liked to blow off trim tab lines in chop ha. Fastest I've been on water was 92 in a blown 502 Eliminator Cat. Not my cup of tea but fun. I like my bottoms shaped like a V ha. If I ever boy a stern drive boat to go faster it will be a Donzi 18 or 22 Classic. Such a classic design. |
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PAPA
Senior Member Joined: October-06-2009 Location: Fremont, In Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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Tony, I agree with you in that it shouldn't be a BFD about which way it spins. As the owner of a 1977 nautique with a stroker 392 Ford spinning lefty I am glad I didn't ask first or I may have been talked out of doing it. We switched engines back in 2009 and the smiles have been well worth it. I have driven the boat 60 mph and I can say that with the engine spinning in the 5000 RPM range it was quite uneventful. My son and I have never complained about any handling issues other than a sticky steering cable which we changed. My plan is the same as yours; replace the engine with the factory original which I have whenever we get tired of the smiling. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I trust Jody's and Tim's opinions by far more that yours. Sorry but both of them have spent more time in different boats that you have. Don't forget that Jody worked for CC and was a major contributor to hull designs. He is also a professional driver. Righty or lefty |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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This doesnt strike you as unneccessarily harsh Pete? The guys spent a lot of time and money obtaining a data point I wouldnt mind hearing more about.. but if I was him I sure wouldnt bother sharing with that kind of reception. |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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I'd like to hear more about that 392 Nautique.
I've always been skeptical of any hull work being done regularly to pre 2001 hulls and the theory that the older boats had hull designs to accomadate rotation. No doubt the lean of a right helm boat is accentuated with a LH engine, but beyond that I don't know if there's much difference. Were '60s Mustang and Skylark hulls different, or Barracudas and Classic that had RH and LH engines any different besides the side the helm was placed? |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Well I am in the middle of a plant move these days and without network connections for anything but the phone.. so sorry for being out of the loop on this… if it seems abrupt that’s just me conserving letters.
Here is my take… you do what you will with it. RH or LH does make a difference on lean in a 2001 sn.. had it left then put it back right, I no longer have to drive from the passenger seat.. its kinda nice. If you can’t figure out why draw a free body diagram… props are not 100 percent efficient in moving boats forward. But I sure would rather have a left hand engine than no engine at all. Part of the negative stigma (and destruction of resale value) of having a left hand engine in a right hand boat is that it has often been the result of someone replacing a blown up rh engine with the nearest junk yard lh replacement.. As for drag racing correct crafts at reunions.. happens all the time, whenever two inboards are in sight of each other and neither is pulling a skier they are racing… bad handling at high speeds, also not a myth.. although I suspect not too big an issue for a southwind, prop choice, rudder choice, and hull can all play a role.. not to mention water conditions and the driver. My advice would to be to make sure that everything else in the boat is up to the task. Old steering cables break, so do inadequate prop shafts.. seen both send people flying out of their boats so be careful. Adding more blades to a prop to deal with more hp.. that’s mostly crazy talk. Once you build it we can have 40 more pages on what prop would work best. Zack made a comment about not wanting to add a roller cam because he likes his current idle? The beauty of a roller cam is that because of the increased ramp rates that can be achieved there are very few sacrifices that need to be made with a well designed roller cam. If a great all around performing engine is your goal a roller cam is one of the best ways to get there. Either you are building an engine for this boat, or you are building a big bad ass mopar that will for a time be in this boat. If you build an engine for this boat imho it should be RH(roller if in anyway possible), and a dual quad, running a bw 72 series. I would paint the whole thing chrylser blue and add a few golden lion reproduction decals..(I would probably call it a 425 ski lion) and listen to the sweet exhaust music. The cross ram stuff from A and A has been around for a few years in the mopar mags and is cool but really is only worth the effort and huge dollars if you are putting together a max wedge clone. Putting together a stroked, aluminum head, lh monster that you could then sell to a mopar guy at some point but you run in the southwind for a few years wouldn’t be the worst crime ever committed. It would actually give you more options as to what to do with the motor if you ever decide to sell the boat. Running the motor on a dyno for tuning purposes isn’t really worth a heck of a lot unless you can run it with the proper exhaust, and preferably with water in it. Depending on the manifold design you might be able to rig something up. I have gone the lh route and the dyno route and the working with a builder who makes a lot of car engines route and a I got a motor that I still had to tune, with a cam that was too small, I had a piece of paper that said 403 hp but a boat that was like 51.x mph. Done much better building on my own since then. I am a few projects away from building up a (hopefully twin turbo) 426 Chrysler right hand with roller cam,.. if you choose to blaze that path first (and add the stroker component) be ready to accept delays and financial setbacks. I have what I am pretty sure was the first stroked sbc RH roller cam engine sitting on a stand in an engine shop. From that experience I know you should expect that anything that turns and or has a seal could be an issue. Timing sets, pistons, cam blanks, rear main seals, front seals, distributor gears, etc may need to be custom or take a while to hunt down. Then when you are done it may leak, eat gears, not fire in the right order, etc. Each thing that has not been done before adds some uncertainty.. and likely time and money. Somethings are worth it, what those things are depends on you. I could probably be talked into buying into a cam blank run, but unfortunately I am in no position to pick a grind at the moment, three boats in front of the mopar project. |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1774 |
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Yes!!!!!! The twins are ready to be picked up anytime....... |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Any chance you can make it over to green lake this year? |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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Joe, I know I could get a roller to sound the same in theroy but the cam that is in the car is a old school large over lap Mopar performance single pattern cam.(not the best cam given todays camshaft choices but heck I was only 17 when I degreed that baby in ;)) So it might be hard to recreate the sound exactly with more modern roller dual pattern cams. I will probably go with a roller just becuase you can achieve the same or better power numbers with a far less agressive camshaft due to all the advantages the roller presents.
I was also curious Joe, if Tony would be able to run water manifolds on the dyno because if he is using a header for tuning purposes it will be a lot different as far as jetting changes and timing numbers go when it gets the water manifolds back on it in the boat. Roller Vs Flat Tappet is like a hottie VS a girl you might settle for. Spend the extra time and effort for the hottie or settle for the ok girl because its easier! haha bad analogy? |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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And I trust Woody's facts more than Jody and Tim's opinions (No offense guys) The following will, hopefully, put this argument to bed once and for all(But I doubt it.) According to Woody, who is in the ranks of Ralph Meloon, Sr, and Art Cozier, and has forgotten more about Correct Craft's than any of us will ever know has made the following statement concerning the Southwind Family of boats. "The Southwind was built with a variety of powerplants. From MerCruiser stern drives, to jet drives, to full inboards, the Southwind family has come with just about anything." Woody says, and I quote, "The Southwind family does not give a rat's arse (keeping it clean) which direction the propeller turns." The control issues that have come up WOULD be an issue with a Nautique, a Mustang, or any other flat bottom design." And "while the BFN is a similar design to the Southwind, the lifting strakes are different. So is the balance of the boat." Woody went into specific details about weight distribution and lift strake design and layout differences between the BFN and the Southwind family, which I won't clutter this thread with. But they are different. (sorry Tim) Bottom line: she will be a lefty and while I plan on having it dyno'd, I will bring a box of jets and a timing light, so I can have Zach help me dial this thing in with a set of water manifolds on it. If anyone here feels they are expert enough to question Woody's facts, pleae call him...on MY DIME! You can use my phone. I won't publish his cell number here as I don't have his permission. |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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By the way, anybody got a 100MPH jacket and helmet. I have played test pilot (maintenance check pilot actually) for the airport before, so I don't rattle easily. But that water can get mighty hard at 60MPH. |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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When's the build going to start?
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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Almost forgot, Woody had one more comment, and this one is going to offend a few people. Just remember I am quoting.
"As for keeping things original, some of those guys (speaking of a few here at the site) need to get over it. The industry being what it is, is running out of parts. Chrysler and Ford no longer have marine divisions and are not likely to re-open them anytime soon. This leaves us with Chevy engines, which are all lefties." "Now if someone wants to open a manufacturing plant to start making marine parts again, I will come to work for them, but right now, parts are getting scarce and some are gone altogether. So get over keeping it original or put your boat in a museum." Woody sort of has a way of cutting through the BS, doesn't he? |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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As soon as I am rested up from my last trip to Wisconsin to pick up my latest acquisition, Dr. John Elsen's Mustang 16 that he originally bought for Moody Church that they gave back to him. I will begin disassembly of the raw material, catalog all the pieces, and take some measurements. I plan on documenting everything with a camera and notebook to keep it all organized. As for a schedule, I don't plan on keeping a tight one. I am not made of money and will need to save for some of the more exotic pieces. And I do need to eat and pay bills, too. Suffice to say, I will keep everyone informed on the progress. Oh, and one more thing...IT WILL REMAIN A LEFTY! |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I'm not offended since everyone has a right to their own opinion. I will however pass the word out to the ACBS judges to watch out. Hopefully he won't bring a classic Correct Craft to a judged show. The Sunnyland Mt. Dora show comes to mind. BYW, if it's not available, you have it made. Many have gone that route. |
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Tonali_III
Senior Member Joined: August-30-2004 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 412 |
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I get it. I have seen a few hand made parts on a few '49 Ford V8 Police Car engines. I learned that the Police Engine was a little different. Hey, Pete. I am not trying to perpetuate any hard feelings, just report what I find. Folks from Chicago have a ...unique ... way with words. BTW, I have decided that the project after the Mustang will be a wood boat. No more plastics for a while. Any wooden jewels you would recommend, besides the Atom Skier (which is my present direction of thought)? |
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1974 Southwind 20
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6752" rel="nofollow">1972 Mustan |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1774 |
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I will try but summer is big time busy for me.....will somehow see if we can get together with Chris mars and maybe arrange delivery to green lake. |
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