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Prop shaft came loose

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merrittarnold View Drop Down
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    Posted: June-03-2013 at 5:12pm
Out of the hole, the engine revved and there was no forward motion. Shaft did not break, it just slipped out of the coupling. Now I need to put it back but I have some questions.

There are indentions where the two coupling screws were just pressed into the side of the shaft. And when I felt in the inside of the coupling, none of either shaft screw extended into the coupling, so I assume they were sheared off.

Should one of the these screws have been in the keyway? If so, what does the screw look like and where can I get a replacement? Also, why are there two screws?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 5:21pm
The screw points go into 2 dimples in the shaft and the shaft and coupler both have a key way slot. There's a good chance your coupler is trashed, Pete will tell you more
Brian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 5:39pm
The coupling is shot if the shaft fell out. The alignment is also suspect since the shaft fell out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Air206 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by hotboat hotboat wrote:

.......... your coupler is trashed, Pete will tell you more
Yup, he sure will!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merrittarnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 5:52pm
The alignment was good. Prop turned easily by hand.
What is the keyway for if the coupling had a keyway too? Does it have the male version of the keyway for the shaft to slide onto?
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There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 6:40pm
The key works the same as the key in the shaft/prop end
Brian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merrittarnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 6:52pm
My brother in law explained the key to me. (For anyone searching, the key is a square shaped rod that fits in the grooves of the shaft and the coupling.) Found half of the broken key in the back. I took apart the coupling and it looks good. Shaft looks good except screws were broken off. Are replacement screws a common enough item?
There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons.
There are tractors; and there are John Deeres.
There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merrittarnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 6:54pm
It looks like the key handles all the torque and the screws keep the shaft from moving out.
There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons.
There are tractors; and there are John Deeres.
There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 7:08pm
The key most likely handles little of the torque, the zero clearance fit does that. In forward the shaft is trying to push a hole though the engine so it has to get pretty wallowed out for it to fall out the back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote storm34 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 8:10pm
Hard to believe mine held.

Reid noticed it first up at Tim's, seemed like something was slamming into reverse. Come to find out the shaft loose in the coupler. Set screws were the only thing holding the shaft in the coupler.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 8:26pm
Merritt - You will need to measure both the shaft OD & the coupler ID to determine if these parts can be reused. Take 3 measurements (120 deg apart) with a micrometer on the shaft OD, then average them.   Likewise for the ID of the coupler, except you need an internal mic.   A machine shop can help you measure these if you don't have access to the gages.   You need the shaft average to be .001 inch bigger than the coupler ID average (press fit).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2013 at 9:30pm
Merrit,
The comments are correct. Your coupling and maybe even the shaft is TRASH. Of course the prop shaft turned easy. The coupling was so fretted that the shaft was loose. The coupling is a heat shrink fit. It's a .000" to a - .0005" fit. The key does NOT handle the torque. The interference fit handles most of it. Your coupling was so fretted that you sheared the key!!!

Tell me how you checked your alignment. By just turning the prop shaft to see if it turned easy? Hopefully your brother in law didn't tell you that's how it's done! Bad alignment is what trashes couplings.

You say the coupling and shaft look "good"??? Measure like Chris has suggested and get back to us.

BTW, a good alternate to a single taper shaft is the double taper ARE system.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merrittarnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2013 at 12:07am
Well, last time I checked the alignment I used the gauges suggested here and it was aligned perfectly. I wasn't going off of just the turning by hand.
No, I don't have the tools to measure the ID and OD of the coupling and shaft.
All the marinas were closed today but I'll have someone look at it in the morning for suggestions.
There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons.
There are tractors; and there are John Deeres.
There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TX Foilhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2013 at 12:49am
I'm sure it's not the first time someone fixed something the previous owner missed or did wrong. Alignment isn't the easiest concept to grasp or fix correctly. At least your going about fixing it the correct way, I'm sure most people would jus put it back and call it good.

I would take it to a machine shop, the marina is probably going to send it to one and tack on something for their time as well. If there's a harbor freight close their tools are cheap and measure as good as anyone's if you feel like doing it yourself. I've actually checked of their stuff at work against much nicer and more expensive stuff and it always comes out accurate, just wouldn't want to use it day in and day out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gun-driver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2013 at 2:08am
Also pictures of events like this are worth a thousand words.
If you can post some pics of the shaft and coupler it would help with the diagnosis. You maybe wasteing your time and money trying to put it back together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2013 at 5:53am
Merritt,
Don is correct that the alignment can be difficult to grasp for some. We have had some just try to fit the .003" feeler gauge between the coupling halves without loosening up the bolts holding the halves together. What were the measurements when you checked your alignment with the feeler gauge? Unless the marina/mechanic is well versed with inboards, I would not trust their opinion. The machine shop is a better idea. If you take the shaft and coupling to one of them, make sure you tell them the coupling is a heat shrink fit.

Please keep us informed of your plans.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merrittarnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2013 at 11:41am
I have pics but need a web guru to give me permission to post.
There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons.
There are tractors; and there are John Deeres.
There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ny_nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2013 at 11:52am
Sign up for a free photobucket.com or flickr.com account. Upload the pics and then use the "Share" option. They will give you the code to post here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2013 at 12:11pm
You don't actually need live approval you just aren't doing it correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2013 at 7:46pm
A code to post pictures? Unless this is a very recent site change, Kevin (HW) is correct.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merrittarnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2013 at 8:59pm
New coupling same shaft. Idle speed it was smooth but when under mild speed it is pretty rough.
I didn't have my gauges with me to align it. Got the gauges from home and I will do a thorough alignment tomorrow morning; weather permitting. Anything else I need to check?
There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons.
There are tractors; and there are John Deeres.
There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2013 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by merrittarnold merrittarnold wrote:

New coupling same shaft. Idle speed it was smooth but when under mild speed it is pretty rough.
I didn't have my gauges with me to align it. Got the gauges from home and I will do a thorough alignment tomorrow morning; weather permitting. Anything else I need to check?

"mild speed pretty rough"? What was the bore of the new coupling and the diameter of the old shaft? Was the shaft egg shaped? Is the new coupling heat shrunk onto the shaft.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merrittarnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2013 at 9:25pm
It was a 1inch coupling. Shaft is not egg shaped. Flat front with keyway. Coupling has two set screws. Each 120 degrees around from keyway. Not heat fit.
There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2013 at 9:41pm
Originally posted by merrittarnold merrittarnold wrote:

It was a 1inch coupling. Shaft is not egg shaped. Flat front with keyway. Coupling has two set screws. Each 120 degrees around from keyway. Not heat fit.

Merritt,
You are on your own. Sorry but many tried to give you advice but you seemed to have ignored it. Of course it's a 1" shaft but again, the fit is a heat shrink.


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get ready... here it comes...
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No, there it went.
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wow, post on here asking for help, get help, ignor help and do exactly what told not to do.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OverMyHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2013 at 11:30pm
Merrit. Heat shrink fits means the coupler has to be smaller than the shaft, requiring heating the coupler to several hundred degrees expanding it to get it on the shaft. If it went on without heat the shaft is smaller than the coupler and will come apart again putting you back at your first post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merrittarnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2013 at 11:37pm
Look guys, I apologize. I'm a school teacher with three kids who like to ski. I am not a mechanic. Nor do I have loads of money to spend on one.
In the past you guys have helped me replace the steering cable, fix an overheating engine, rebuild a carburetor, align a shaft prop, decide how to handle a broken fuel gauge, give suggestions on towers versus extended pylons, and how to fix several routine issues with a thirty-five year old boat; and I thank you all. Everybody usually responds in a matter of minutes instead of days and have been patient with my amateur attempts sometimes explaining things in plain language I can understand.
I usually get access to a lake house for two weeks a year and spend half the time keeping the boat running. I'm not complaining because I love getting out of the classroom and getting my hands dirty rather than just doing the easy thing of selling a classic Ski Nautique and buying some stupid plastic boat like the Seadoos and Sunbirds others buy.(I think you guys know what I mean.)
I have very limited assets and can't just shell out hundreds of dollars every time I go out on the water.
In previous years I have had plenty of help from the experts here.
I normally search every forum post first so I don't ask questions already explained elsewhere.
So, please, if you are willing to explain to me what I should do and how to do it like most of the Grand Poobahs have done in the past then I appreciate the help. I need it in simple language to a guy who has never messed with a shaft before.
However, if you feel the desire to answer with "you're just doing it wrong" or "you can lead a horse to water" or some other unhelpful condescending response then please stay out of the way and let the guys who are willing to take their valuable time and actually help me to understand do the replying.
I'm doing the best I can with what I have.
Now,
I took the coupling to a veteran boat mechanic and machinist. He told me where to go to get the right coupling. I got a coupling made for a Ski Nautique identical to the one I took off. I don't know what it means to be heat shrunk. Is a heat shrunk coupling different than the coupling I took off or is it a process for mounting the new coupling?
I want to do it right if I can.
Do I need to remove the prop and shaft completely in order to fasten it to the coupling or can the coupling be replaced without removing the shaft?
What length square rod key do I use and how do you properly seat it in the coupling and shaft simultaneously?
These are the things I need help in understanding.
Call me whatever insult you want, I guarantee it's not worse than what my elementary students have called me. But if you are the patient mentor type, willing to help a newbie amateur, then you are acting like the true professionals who have helped me in the past. Thank you. You are the men I have grown to truly respect and come to for help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merrittarnold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-05-2013 at 11:49pm
Thank you Overmyhead. Does that mean a previous owner put in the wrong kind of coupling and shaft and I need to start over? Where do I need to go to get someone to do it right? The previous posts said not to take it to the marina.
There are motorcycles; and there are Harley Davidsons.
There are tractors; and there are John Deeres.
There are ski boats; and there are Ski Nautiques!
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