learning to barefoot

IAughtNaut wrote: I've never considered doing any of them together...so I guess what you're saying is, feet out in front, back straight, then straighten my arms slowly AS I pull my feet under?

No.

Arms out as you stand up. If you're on your butt handle is in.

Sandbagger.

Cup stays in the hockey bag. Tried it once actually, hated it.

The 3-point is a learning tool to teach you to proper form when you plant. You dont need to master it. Seipel doesnt teach it. I dont think McDonald did either. Its hard and unnecessary (IMHO). Once you can do it well, you can skip it entirely- whats the point?

The goal is a nice, slow, controlled plant. You can practice the muscle memory on land. Get in your glide position, then practice the 3 things mentioned above. Its not a 1, 2, 3 progression- all 3 have to happen at once- its a single movement. On the water, stand up, sit down, repeat. That'll build muscle memory.

[QUOTE=TRBenj] The 3-point is a learning tool to teach you to proper form when you plant. You dont need to master it. Seipel doesnt teach it. I dont think McDonald did either. Its hard and unnecessary (IMHO).QUOTE]

I agree it is hard and unnecessary. It seems a technique you can practice after you already know to plant and ski. As a newbie I could not really ride around on a 3-point. I do it now just to remind myself how fun it is eating all that spray!

LakeBoy wrote: Steve, I was not picking on your girl, she was doing awesome, especially her 3-point. Gotta love how flexible the ladies are. Put my legs in her position I would be on pain meds for a week!

No offense taken Roy, it was the best picture I had illustrating the knees together heels to the butt. I agree with the pain meds, that would be my reaction as well, if my hips didn't pop right out - HA!

skutsch wrote: TRBenj wrote: The 3-point is a learning tool to teach you to proper form when you plant. Its hard and unnecessary (IMHO). Tim, if you can master it, you can use it as defensive position. It works well when you happen upon other boat wakes and your not skiing behind a BFN!

Agree to disagree Steve... I can get plenty defensive for rollers without getting on my butt! The BFN is a very new luxury for us- we're used to footing on our little round wave pool!

I agree with Roy- I can 3-point just fine but I didnt learn that way. It falls into the same category as the step off for me- there are easier ways to learn and its not a building block for anything... so why bother.

I think the three point is a Lane Bowers thing...everybody else calls it planing and planting....you only do it very briefly as you change from plane to plant...as speed is reached

TRBenj wrote: Agree to disagree Steve... I can get plenty defensive for rollers without getting on my butt! The BFN is a very new luxury for us- we're used to footing on our little round wave pool!

Yep! Just like everything, it CAN BE another option in your tool box. I too rarely resort to the 3 point in defense, I low and get close but also don't go all the way to my butt, my kids do though. If the water is so rough that I need to get that defensive (to the 3 pt) I am usually gonna just let it go and glide it out... Can't afford the pain - HA!

Great discussion. Exactly where I am stuck on the long line. I can't get from the plane to plant. I've talked with the guru's and I think it comes down to having more attempts.

What should I be thinking, both in posture and movements as I go from the "planing on my butt" plant to stand?

On a separate topic, what is the opinion about the higher pull off the skylon, once you are up. I've skied it both way's off a wakeskate start, and think I actually prefer the lower pull off the pylon.

Gary, if you go back to the previous page where I posted videos a few of these guys laid it out pretty good for me. There's even illustrations of how not to do it, haha! I don't think there's any difference between the long and short line, so all the advice translates, knees, arms, back, feet, even a little lady cup talk...what could be better than that?

Good stuff Tim!

BTW, as a completely off topic comment, I could watch these attempts behind the BFN's all day long, I absolutely love the sound of that BBC...

Pulling the legs/heels together after setting your feet on the water with toes pointed out, is something Lane corrected right away when I was skiing with him, he said I was actually pulling them to far in (very different from skiing with HW, I think HW recommends planting at shoulder width and then just turning the toes down when you transition to standing, one less movement, where Lane recommends planting really wide), as you indicated above, only 12 inches, max. He also emphasized that when you turn your toes down, that is where you get all your power to transition to stand. Another thing he said to do, is when you are transitioning off the water to growl, again I don't know why it works but it does, perhaps when you growl you really engage your core. Lastly, in this video (or at least as I remember coming through the helmet) he kept repeating, "bend over, bend over, bend over" it became my mantra, and I think when he talks about your hips moving up, that is the action that causes that to happen, I will go back to that mantra now that I am more comfortable in that 3 point. Here is the video, if you listen carefully you can hear him coaching me all the way through it.

Good point Kevin (I edited my post above) and a good reason to just place your feet/legs at shoulder width, again one less thing to think about.

skutsch wrote: Pulling the heels together after setting your feet on the water with toes pointed out, is something Lane corrected right away when I was skiing with him, he said I was actually pulling them to far in (very different from skiing with HW, I think HW recommends planting at shoulder width and then just turning the toes down, one less movement, where Lane recommends planting really wide), as you indicated above, only 12 inches, max. He also emphasized that when you turn your toes down, that is where you get all your power to transition.

Its interesting to see/experience different teaching styles. Sometimes its a totally different school of thought that teaches different form- other times, its just a different emphasis to achieve the same goal. Im thinking these 2 styles are more similar than they are different. Where Lane may not emphasize getting narrower as much, I have seen that getting 12" narrower after the plant is a HUGE difference. Like Eddie said, it feels like your heels are about to touch, but in reality theyre nowhere close. Im wondering if by emphasizing the turning of your feet and engaging your core, it does the same thing (helps you get narrower)- just gives you a different way to think about it.

Either way, Ive got some things to work on. I feel like Im close- just need to sort out what feels like a minor issue so I can start skiing away.

Tim:

You got a great start. Your driver is killing you. you plant good (I see the water shooting up) You plant fine, (bit wide, but so what). Once you plant and are stable, your driver needs to give you some speed to pluck you off the water. Not hammer it, but that is really slow acceleration. Forget all the toes in, toes down, wide feet, power band noise. Get your driver to accelerate, man! Get rid of that rope if it is poly-e and get a no-stretch, too.

Roy, good info- thanks. Driver tips are always appreciated! Dad is learning along with me. No one else can ski backwards around here, so all of his instruction is coming from me- and I can count the number of times Ive pulled guys backwards on two hands. The clips are out of order (they go 6,4,3,1,5,2, I think). The super slow one was my first run and I told him to bring it up quicker after that. Still need quicker acceleration than shown on the other ones? I told him speed was ok, but what do I know?

My form is missing something somewhere... I might be taking baby steps as Im at least able to get my chest and chin off the water- but its still way too much of a struggle (groin). Even once my chest is up, I feel like my feet arent underneath me- like Im skiing on the inside of my feet. Ive had a taste of how easy it should be and this is not it!

The rope is made from Lake Elmo's 16 strand TAC (HDPE). Its not bad, but a little stretchier than the thin BI line I have (spectra?). That BI line is always a knot fest, but I'll switch if you think its important.