You didn build that !

Yeah atlas shrugged – great movie if you have the luxury of viewing the world in ultra simplistic black and white (and you missed the first 8000 years of human history), but again if you believe the ayn rand underlying message that we should all be working towards our own gratification then you would be completely against the current American system of your healthcare being tied to your employment which massively limits your ability to pursue your own gratification. Talk about your market inefficiency! Holy inelastic demand batman! Seriously though it’s a decent book if you understand the background of the writer and its time in history it’s definitely something worth reading and thinking about as a small part of a well-rounded economic knowledge base – one that includes actual data and historical fact. However the movies are pretty lousy – I mean seriously lousy.

I don’t understand why it’s a story that highly qualified government employees would want to have their healthcare subsidized by their employer just like the majority of the rest of the country, certainly every other, experienced, college educated, American working for a large company expects that the company is going to cover the majority of their health care costs.   How is it a scandal that rather than getting a Cadillac plan at zero cost like they would if they were working in the private sector congressional staffers will have to buy their insurance on the exchange and pay for 25% of it. Except for Ted Cruz of course.. he is covered on his wife’s plan from Goldman Sachs… that they (her employer) pay more than 40k a year for.
Then we are going to talk about housing collapse not being the banks fault… are you freaking kidding me were you guys not living in the same country as me for the last 10 years – lenders were basically paying people with no credit to take a mortgage and no it wasn’t because of barney frank making them do it.. they all made millions it was just plain old greed combined with lack of government regulation.    

Newsflash kiddos the government is already in the healthcare business, where do you think all those big deficits come from – it aint foodstamps, cell phones, or welfare its health care and again they do a better job by every single metric than every single private insurance company...

YOu have any facts to show otherwise? Seems like if there were any we wouldnt be talking about hypothetical death panels and stuff and would instead be talking about how much more efficient private industry provides health care than medicare and medicaid .. but we arent.

Housing....Well fellas, we will just have to agree to disagree on the housing thing. I will argue til the cows come home that govt interference/participation caused the collapse. Just like LBJ's war on poverty. Trillions spent, and poverty levels still at ~15%, all while destroying many lives due to increasing govt dependance. Ever seen Chicago's govt housing units before they had to tear them down? Cesspools of despair and misery!! Caprini Green ring a bell?? It was supposed to be govt funded nirvana until it all came apart.

Atlas Shrugged.....I would urge everyone to watch it and tell me if you don't see more than a couple of parallels to our current situation. Heavy handed govt pressure on successful companies, govt beaurocrats usurping power, international centrallized power unification (UN??), gasoline prices ~$40/gal.   


Healthcare....I sure don't get my company paying for ~75% of my healthcare. I could only wish. Only the ruling class gets that. Why is the govt taking over healthcare anyway?? I think its part of their plan to have more and more control over our lives. It will become a miserable failure, drive prices through the roof and discourage innovation. But, that's just my opinion. We will have to wait and see I suppose. Not off to a great start, and the cost of O-care has tripled from original estimates.

All just one small govt guys opinion and observations!

Oh by the way, government is already in healthcare. It's called Medicare. Due to go broke in 2016!

Forbes Article....Medicare Going Broke by 2016

You are so right John! Not sure what point I proved. You may need to further explain. I am a low information voter.

Do doctors like the lower, and lower payments the govt gives them? Will they stay in practice for the long haul? Will there be doctor shortages with govt "management" of h-care?

Government should take over EVERYTHING, and we will be in great shape. Maybe they should run the Post Office, Medicare, Social Security, and Entitlement Programs! Oh, they already do. Oh well, just borrow another trillion or so from China, and it will be good.   

Laws get changed all the time! FYI!

"Clean" CR=Bad CR=Give Obama whatever he wants with no negotion and/or much higher national debt, and more deficeit spending.

Tea Party=The group of people that will help overturn bad laws, get our national debt under control, and send RINO's packing. Maybe the IRS shouldn't have poked a hornets next.    

john b wrote: Unless a clean CR is approved the obstructionists holding up the vote are little more than criminals refusing to obey the law of The land and pay our bills.

John, The president has already decided to delay implementation of parts of the law of the land he himself signed, which he has no authority to do. Why are the republicans criminal and not Obama? Should he not lead by example and implement the entire law, without any carve outs of special treatment for certain citizens. If not then game on.


As far as the debt ceiling I think this senator said it well.
   “Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.” Senator B. Obama

Sorry David, you will have to play with yourself. I went home.

This is a boating site and I'm just not having fun on this thread anymore. Suffice it to say I stand with Joe in NY. As soon as you come up with a BFN OR SN that goes faster than his I will listen to your opinion.
That is all!

Tee Hee Hee, that little pipsqueak was built with a 40hp Yamaha outboard powerhead mounted horizontally.
It has extensive modifications, ported, reed valves, carb, manifold, milled head, expansion chamber, Wiesco pistons, Pro Tech ride plate, Solas progressive impeller, practically everything my brother's kid (the one with the Supra) could have done to it when it was new.

With all of that high tech all out performance stuff on it I believe it may be putting out just slightly less power than the smallest new Sea-Doo running on the learning key. It probably puts out as many HCs as Joe's or Tim's boat in a day, and as much as yours puts out in a year. On a good day that thing can rip into the mid 30s on GPS. Hold on limply and don't let go too often!

I bought an aluminum trailer for it after GL so I can road trip with it. They don't make trailers to fit these old tiny ones any more. With the bow stop in the original position the whole thing was in front of the axle. I thought about cutting off the tongue to shorten it so it doesn't look so ridiculous and takes up less garage space, but I would like to keep my options open for a Sea-Doo RXT-X aS 260 (you need 260hp on a PWC) in my future if I can sneak one by Mrs. B. without her knowing. The old WR500 is good for exploring lakes and arriving unfashionably late.

BTW I enjoy a good argument, but not at the expense of friendships or this great site.

john b wrote:

I always liked those. I assume that the Battlestar Galactica fighters were the inspiration.

john b wrote: BTW I enjoy a good argument, but not at the expense of friendships or this great site.

I enjoy a good debate with friends.

I think John's point was that some things have traditionally been off the table when it comes to negotiation, because putting them on the table is a slap in the face to good governance, to say the least.

For example, to my mind the Republicans that say, "We won't back up the debt of the nation" so that they can get their way are using a tactic that should automatically be off the table because it is so potent a weapon that it shouldn't even be an option. It is quite literally a form of Mutually Assured Destruction, but this time the one making the threats might just be crazy enough to push the button.

Part of the issue now is, if Obama caves to these demands where does it stop, for him or any other president? We've already seen how both parties have turned the once seldom-used filibuster into a tool to create further gridlock. Let's imagine they reach a short-term deal, as now appears likely, and six weeks from now Ted Cruz and friends start saying, "Well, abortion is murder and we're not going to authorize raising the debt limit unless the President signs a bill outlawing all abortion." Where does it end?

It would be like President Obama as Commander-in-Chief saying, "I'm going to start a war with Iran unless you Republicans start voting for everything the Democrats want." Obviously every citizen would be enraged, and rightfully so. What is the difference between these two scenarios, well probably a lot of things, but it illustrates that just because you can negotiate doesn't mean that it is something you should even be negotiating in the first place. When I heard all this talk of "hostage-taking" and "ransoms" I too thought it was baloney. But I'm rather convinced now that it really is that.

Some things should always be off of the table. Debt limits being one of them. And yes OMH Dave, that means that Obama was grandstanding and wrong when he said otherwise as a junior senator during the Bush Administration. He is, after all, a politician. If you wan't to stop upping the debt limit then you need to cut spending or increase revenue. Those are your only two options.

Nice to hear from you Hansel! I hope everything is well.

Hansel wrote: I think John's point was that some things have traditionally been off the table when it comes to negotiation, because putting them on the table is a slap in the face to good governance, to say the least. For example, to my mind the Republicans that say, "We won't back up the debt of the nation" so that they can get their way are using a tactic that should automatically be off the table because it is so potent a weapon that it shouldn't even be an option. It is quite literally a form of Mutually Assured Destruction, but this time the one making the threats might just be crazy enough to push the button. Some things should always be off of the table. Debt limits being one of them.   If you wan't to stop upping the debt limit then you need to cut spending or increase revenue. Those are your only two options.

Since the Republicans control the House, which controls the purse strings, it is time they as adults step in and take the credit card away from an out of control teenager that is going absolutely nuts with spending. We will never default on our debt. We have plenty of money coming in to take care of that. BUT, the crazy spending has to stop!

We are spending big time to get our jollies now, and you and your kids will get the bill. I don't want that for you or my kids and grandkids.

What happens when you raise the debt limit? You keep spending don't you? Time to cut the credit card up, and get entitlements under control.

Jamin, Congrats on the new job. You are smart to follow the jobs that come when a state has minimal government intervention and taxes. Let me know when you are passing through.

Does anyone else wonder where all the (I assume thousands) of shut down signs come from?



They were posted within hours. Is the government that efficient in getting them printed quickly?   

or had 'em made up ahead of time.. "just in case"?

.