Ford FE engine find |
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Posted: November-24-2013 at 12:44am |
In one of my last posts about engine options I was informed that my Cuda SS hull originally had a Ford FE engine. I immediately tapped all my resources and within two days I came across what what was described to me as a 390. I bought it sight unseen because $300 was a great deal in my mind. Especially since it came fully dressed, minus the distributor though. I have not been able to determine the rotation or confirm the actual displacement just yet. The engine was found at a reputable engine shop outside of Baltimore that builds all kinds of performance marine/muscle car engines. They had plans for it but the owner said he never got around to it.
Upon getting it home I pulled the plugs and found water in two cylinders. I soaked every bolt in penetrating oil and filled the combustion chambers with penetrating oil as well. I found corrosion,loose rust scale and debris inside the intake manifold. I let everything soak until this morning when I had the time to tear it down. Pulled all the accessories off, the heads, intake and everything else I could do before dark. It took about 6 hours due to a a hand full of badly corroded bolts. My neighbor came over to help out and suggested using a concoction of 1:1 ATF and acetone. That stuff worked like a charm! Two of the cylinders had a lot of scaling and rust, where I found water. Tomorrow I'll try to get the rest of the block torn down and inspect the crank and cam. When removing the heads I noticed that one of the rods was cracked and had a significant dent. Enjoy the pics! |
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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oldcuda
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2010 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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How was that intake Heavy? Probably save 50lbs getting rid of that. Last time I removed one of those thought I forgot to remove a bolt.What was bent push rod or rocker shaft? Adjustable rockers? Check bore and stroke think 4.05x3.78? for 390.
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davidg
Grand Poobah Joined: January-07-2008 Location: NW Chicagoland Status: Offline Points: 2239 |
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Love the FE's. I have one (390)in my '68 F250. I was going to pull it and rebuild it for a winter project, but, decided to wait until next spring when the weather is warmer since I don't have a heated garage. It runs good, just need to freshen it up some.
I look forward to following this thread to follow your rebuild. Post more pictures when you can. |
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Intake = heavy heavy heavy, anchor worthy no less. Came across a bent/cracked push rod, will post a pic. Rockers are not adjustable. I gave my hands a break today, had to catch up on work.
More to come next weekend! |
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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I need to confirm all the info in the image below. The tops of the pistons are stock in appearance but have "040" stamped on them. Want to make sure this thing wasn't poked 40 over stock. From what I have read the 352, 390 and 427 all share the same block and heads.
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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oldcuda
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2010 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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That is why it is important to check bore and stroke now. They used the same block for many applications.If it measures 4.090 now it's a .040 over 390 and there are limits to bore size.Lots of info on FE forum for max overbore limit that may have to be sonic tested to see if its even usable.Very important to know what it started at.Not trying to scare you but with these blocks you have to know what it starting at to figure out what you can do with it.
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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I believe for the most part that the marine engines, whether 352, 360, 390 or 427 used 352 heads. There may have been some variations of higher performance engines that used different higher compression heads, but most were low compression 352 heads.
I've heard those cast iron intakes weigh 85 lbs. It looks like you have most of the parts there. If you know that a RR dizy looks like this, can you figure out the rotation by looking at the cam? Edit, sorry that's an ebay picture. I'll email you the link. |
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oldcuda
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2010 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Think I read that's the one thing he didn't have.I had a Mallory rh dist with mech tac drive somewhere going to have to look through boxes in back of shed.Know it was 65-66 vintage
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Spent some more time today removing misc items and getting ready to remove the pistons. Letting bolts soak for a week with the ATF/Acetone mix really made a difference, it smells awful though. Once its on your skin it doesn't come out. The timing gears and chain look darn near new. All the internals are in surprisingly good shape. The rust on the crank brushes right off and the block looks freshly cleaned on the inside. I really can't make out what happened to this engine. Further inspection of the crank, cam and pistons will tell. It has been bored 40 over though, I measured the cleanest cylinder. My engine cradle came in so I bolted that up to support the block as I tinkered with it.
I spoke with an engine builder locally and he is going clean up the block and sonic check the cylinder walls and tell me just what I've got to work with. It's going to cost $170 for the service to figure out what the acutal condition is, not bad really. I'm almost considering sourcing a bare block just in case. |
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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You can see how strong those engines lower ends are with that crank sitting so deep up into it
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Is the cylinder wall between cylinders even narrower than on a 351 small block? I know the .040 over adds a bit of bore but not that much to the eye. I thought a 390 would have more beef there.
Fun project, keep the pictures coming! |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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I was able to remove the crank shaft sleeve, timing set, cam gear, cam shaft and lifters. Attempted to knock out a piston but the bottom end was less than cooperative. I should have picked up a crank indexing tool... After wiping off all the penetrating oil mixed with surface rust, I found all the parts to be absolutely spotless. My pictures show the parts before I wiped them off. All the penetrating oil has been a grimy mess to deal with. It's gonna take an entire day to clean off all my tools, haha. The tops of the lifters were rusty and stuck. Once I got em out I wiped them clean and didn't find a significant damage or pitting. The timing gears, chain, lifters and connecting rods, pistons and most everything looks to have been brand new. That's great but it doesn't explain why the engine is locked up. I suspect the engine was starved of oil and seized up. It didn't run very long before this happened based on how clean everything is. Combine that line of thinking with the cracked push rod and maybe something else happened. All in all there was no evidence of water in the bottom end, just powdery surface rust that brushes off. The oil pan was clean. I'm going to let a machine shop deal with the rest...
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11063 |
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Hi Cuda
Judging by the cut of the cam gear you have a normal left hand rotation engine. Same rotation as a car engine, opposite of the typical Correct Craft engine from back then Ken O |
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Thx Ken - I just figured that out over the weekend. Talking to somone now that has a right hand rotation cam for this engine. Still looking for a distributor though.
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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It will be pretty sweet if you can bring that old hulk back into service.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11063 |
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Hi again
I think you'll also have to worry about the crankshaft. It'll rotate backwards just fine but I think you have wick lines on it right in front of the rear main seal area that are for normal rotation and if you don't do something about that you'll have a leak at the seal when it's running backwards. The auto machine shop should be able to deal with this. I THINK are the key words here. The shop should be able to verify this. Ken O |
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Just when you thought you were set, haha. I will have to check out the grooves on my crank. One more item on the list...
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I'm running a lefty crank right in my Ford. My engine shop installed a speedi sleeve, no trouble since
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11063 |
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Sounds like a good solution to me
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1422 |
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If your block is found to be toast...and you can streach the budget, new 427 side oiler Blocks would be a cool build
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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A 427 block would be cool. Not ruling it out but it's not likely unless I trip over one. I've been calling every salvage yard in my area and have sourced a few stock 390 blocks and even a 428 CJ. I'm going to take my block to the shop after Christmas when I have some time off work. If the block is toast I'll be pulling the trigger on something. Either way I'm going to spend about two hundred dollars to have anything I find sonic checked hot tanked. Hopefully my block is salvageable.
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21171 |
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How expensive are the 390 blocks youve found? If theyre cheap enough, it might be worth grabbing one if it comes with some sort of guarantee that its not cracked, esp if it has minimal over bore. Doesnt seem like a good idea to spend any money on the block you have- best case its not cracked, but it still has a LH crank in it, and is already .040 over.
Have you started researching what it takes to get some decent power out of a FE? I assume you'll be warming it up a bit since a full rebuild is planned? |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Gary, how did they get the speedy sleeve on the crank? Isn't there a flange on it? |
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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I have found bare blocks in my area for $150 - $400. I still need to spend money for the shop to get the bottom end componants out of the block to see what is salvageable. I don't want to damage any of the threads on the con rods, scar crank or break something. The pistons and con rods look brand new underneath. The shop might be able to save and clean up evertyhting. I have honestly just focussed on getting the final pieces of my engine together - RH distributor, cam and maybe even a RH crank if I can find it. Also looking for the right kind of exhaust elbows that Bruce has on his engines. Also looking for the tranny mounts Ford used on the velvet drive. The other option I am considering is keeping the engine a closed cooling system due to the nature of my environment. Salt water can destroy an engine that is not maintained properly. BUT, I have always flushed my engines with fresh water and used a "salt terminator" like product after every outing and have never had any long term issues. I know plenty of people in the wooden boat space and they run raw water cooled engines here all day long. With the right care they will do just fine. I want to put a nice aluminum intake on my engine to "warm it up" a bit and ditch the 80+ lb stock manifold I currently have. Not sure though, I'm in parts finding mode right now. If anyone finds something let me know! Cheers |
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21171 |
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I'd plan on new pistons at a minimum- that will allow you to tune your compression ratio if youre after some extra hp. The ones you have being .040 over and stuck are another good reason to not re-use them... they may be junk anyways.
By all means, salvage the connecting rods and crank though... but finding a RH crank sure would make your life easier. I believe that Gary is running a smooth speedi-sleeve with a rope seal (essentially bi-directional), which apparently works just fine- but it wont have the same positive oil control as a RH crank with the wick lines. I'd weigh the costs of magnafluxing your current block vs. sourcing a new one- like oldcuda said, your block may already be at its limit at .040 over. I didnt see whether you had confirmed the block's displacement anywhere... have you done that yet? Bore and connecting rod length will get you there if you cant easily measure the stroke. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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The flange on the small blocks Bruce is on the inside so the sleeve fits right on, I never have seen a big block crank so I don't know if they are the same |
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Yeah, pistons are most likely junk. Small cost when you look at the overall project. I haven't measured the cylinders or the stroke which is silly because I should have. Kind of moved on to finding misc parts and making a list of things I need. This weekend... |
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1422 |
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A simple test you can do yourself and cost almost no $$$ on 352/390 blocks is take out all the core plugs and see if the maximum drill shank between two cylinder walls in the waterways is 15/64 if so its a good block to take out +60 if you have more it has core shift when cast look for another
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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I have heard of this test but my concerns are primarily with any uneveness of the cylinder walls themselves that I can not get to. Couple that with pitting and built up scale inside the combustion chamber and who knows. I'd rather spend a little money to know what the block will take before diving in an finding out something has been compromised in the process of boring. I'll still owe them money if the block cracks while boring. Spend it up front or in end. I'll try this method in the garage this weekend - Thanks!
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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Cuda Chris
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2011 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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I confirmed the over bore. Cylinder dia. measures 4.090. I'm not going to spend any money trying to save the block. New mission - find a donor block. The cam looks to be in good shape as well as the crank - for sale or scrap shortly. Going to remove the rotating assembly this weekend any way I can. Have a line on two "special" blocks. Waiting for photo confirmation of the block and casting numbers. Parts Parts Parts!
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1968 Barracuda Super Sport
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