Earth day

I need a trip to MSP soon to visit a friend of mine I haven't visited since last winter. Ever been to The Nook/Ranham bowling center in St Paul? Really good burgers and bowling in the basement. I may have to make the trip soon.

'63 Skier,

What I love about the Volt over cars like the Prius and other hybrids is that the Volt runs more like a diesel electric train in that the drivetrain is all electric with the gas motor being utilized as a generator to make the power needed to drive the wheels. Not to switch between electric drive and internal combustion.

The technology is awesome and proven to work. It's just the price and the limited models available at the moment to make it viable for a person like me. Give it 5 - 10 years, and I feel it may be the norm in the car world.

Hansel wrote: That said, I don't care much for Al Gore. I was much less convinced of climate change when his movie can out, and when I saw it at that time I only made it about 20 mins in before I had to turn off what I took to be sanctimonious drivel that was merely preaching to the crowd. I wonder what I might think today... Maybe I would love it, I cannot say. Either way, I consider him and others like him a liability for many of the reasons you cite.

I definitely agree. I couldn't watch the movie, don't like the man.

JPASS wrote: '63 Skier, What I love about the Volt over cars like the Prius and other hybrids is that the Volt runs more like a diesel electric train in that the drivetrain is all electric with the gas motor being utilized as a generator to make the power needed to drive the wheels. Not to switch between electric drive and internal combustion.

I like trains but I love ships. It's steam-electric (or turbo-electric) tech rather than diesel-electric that ran this beauty but the concept is the same.



Wish I could make it to SJRR, but it looks very unlikely due to work.A bowling center in St. Paul might be more doable this spring however.

Thanks for the conversation JP, I appreciate you putting up with me. Have a great day.

Wow Joe. Resort to name calling to those who don't agree with your opinion. Seems mature.

You never answered my question about how to fix the problems of ACC. Do you have any you wish to share or are you just going to berate those who don't fall in line with your way of thinking?

Hope I am fortunate enough to meet you at SJRR in march. I'd love to see the face behind the rants.

Always a pleasure Joe

Hansel,

What created the steam in this ship? Was it wood, coal, or something else?

David since Johnb already hijacked this I'll add this picture. If you
haven't already read General Sweeney's book War's End get yourself a
copy. When this picture was taken in '95 we had just missed him there
by a couple of days. He was photographed sitting in the left seat for
the first time since 8-9-45

Oil all the way. The Normandie was an amazing vessel. It was the first ship over 1,000 feet long, had an innovative hull design that made it the fastest as well as the most beautiful ship of its day (some say ever), all while having the interior designed by the best French art deco artists of the day. After the fall of France in 1940 it was taken over by the US Govt, but while being converted to a troop transport caught fire and burned at its pier in New York City. For a while it was going to be converted to an aircraft carrier (other USN carriers/battleships also had turbo-electric at the time) but by then the war was obviously winding down and so the hulk was sent for scrap. There are still a few pieces of the interior in hotels and other buildings around the world.

A few years ago I dated a girl from the city in France where the Normandie was built. It was and remains a major shipbuilding center. It was a thrill for me to visit the drydock that was constructed for the Normandie, where they still put together ocean/cruise liners to this day.

Joe, I am somewhat trying to take a step back. I don't think the animosity here is worth it, and actually prevents people from taking in new ideas. I also don't think they are bad folks, just confused about where their legitimate, if terribly erroneous, opinion that climate change is false ends and where the objective fact about the science and the scientific consensus around it begins. You can have an opinion on a fact but you can't have an opinion about a fact. A lot of people here don't seem to know what a fact is. Because I strike a softer tone doesn't mean the deniers/doubters are any closer to the truth.

I did bash Gore a bit because he is an inconvenient distraction at times and I sometimes wonder if he doesn't know or just doesn't care, or has some very good reason to do what he does. Or maybe I am misinformed about him, honestly I can't really say. He is certainly a good man on the whole though. I will take the windbag Al Gore who has all the science on his side than the windbag Sean Hannity who has crackpots on his side a million times over.

Mainly because I really was much more skeptical once, I know how it comes off to have a blowhard (like me maybe?) telling you how it really is. It takes time to let the truth sink in, and you have to be able to let your guard down to do so. Perhaps I am too conciliatory, but I guess I am kinda of a kumbaya guy at heart.

63 Skier wrote: Joe, I can't say I've read every post in this thread, but I'm seeing 2 separate types of posters who I think are getting lumped together. 1) Deny GW 2) Acknowledge GW, but unsure how much is man made and how much normal climate cycle

I would say I fall into category 2 as well, but I don't think it matters to people like Joe.

Sad, but not surprising these days.

Gary S wrote: David since Johnb already hijacked this I'll add this picture. If you haven't already read General Sweeney's book War's End get yourself a copy.

Thanks Gary, I haven't read it but will pick it up this week (before I forget!). Tibbets was not complimentary of Sweeney, to say the least.

My dad was a bombardier in B-24's in the Pacific, and met Tibbets at a couple of book talks and signings. He really admired him. I think he also met Sweeney, maybe at a bomb group reunion. Amazing men, amazing story.

I know two people here in the Chicago area who own Teslas, both 85KW models. I am their biggest proponent, so much so that I have had a position in them since they went public. With that disclaimer I will say they are art on wheels and probably the most amazing vehicle out there. They aren't for everyone though. Each of these guys paid over 100K when you include the Supercharger and having their garage wired with the 100 amp service to support it. The one owner was traveling from Madison WI to Chicago (about 160 mile trip) during that holiday snowstorm / cold snap we had a few weeks ago. Temperatures were between -10 and -25 and the interstate was a parking lot. It took him around 5 hours to make the trip (usually around 2-1/2). By the time he got home he was very low on juice. Running the heater, headlights, wipers, rear window defroster, and entertainment system for 5 hours in that weather was apparently equal to about 120 miles of range. He considered stopping and topping off en route but didn't. This guy is really into Torqueedo outboards and as well. I am not a big fan of them.
As I said, the cars are not for everyone but they are amazing.

I like the Volt very much too and a guy who lives close to me owns one. He owns a chain of car washes in the Chicagoland and northern Indiana area and uses it to commute between the locations. It is seldom more than 40 miles between them and he plugs in at the businesses when he is in doing whatever it is he does there. He has gone long enough between fill ups that the car went into a mode it has that switches it to gas power after a certain amount of time so the gasoline in the tank doesn't get too old. I believe he said it is around 3 months. He showed my the stats on his smart phone and it was getting over 110MPGE.

I really like the Cmax Energi and the Fusion plug in as well and considered one of those for my wife. It wouldn't work for us though because none of the electric, electric hybrid, or plug in hybrids can pull a trailer so they are not very useful to a group of Correct Craft owners as an only vehicle. The guy how made the 5 hour madison trip has a Toyota Yaris to make the trip to his cottage in Ontario Canada since it is far away from towns and has no electric current. The Tesla would not do him much good there without the solar charger.

I

Hansel wrote: backfoot100 wrote: Ok, I just spent the better part of a day going through this entire thread and all I have to say is THANK YOU to all who contributed. There was some very well educated, documented and passionate discussions on both sides of the subject and I have a new found perspective to all views. Thanks Eddie. Sometimes I wonder if I am just wasting my energy. Good to know other folks are reading along and finding something to think about. Cheers

Jamin, I don't know if I should apologize for the thread jack again or if there is a real subject to this thread.
I want to share this information with you on the CP2 /CP3 sites here in Chicago and thought there may be others who would enjoy it as well. DOE has a page on the sites and it includes photos and some great documents. Let me know what you think. I will include the sites on my physics hike if you ever get here to Chicago to visit.

CP2 / CP3 site history DOE

Here is one of my favorite documents

They have improved. The small 60kw battery is good for 230 miles now, the 85kw is 300 provided it isn't in extreme weather.

David, did you forget that I mentioned I invested in Cameco (CCJ) about four years before Fukashima? You win a few and lose a few. I am mostly an index guy but I need some excitement (stress) in my life too. I have always liked the statement "it's good to be good, but better to be lucky". I am really small time, live in a blue collar town and drive a 10 year old gray plastic sedan type of small time, and not well educated either. I am just a retired public servant and proud to be that. Don't get the wrong idea. Only a fool would follow this fool's lead.
Chicago has a high percentage of its power generated from nuclear reactors as does the west coast. Illinois ranked first in the Nation in 2010 in both generating capacity and net electricity generation from nuclear power; generation from its nuclear power plants accounted for 12 percent of the Nation’s total. In addition most electric cars are charged at night when there is excess capacity being wasted. You can't just slam the brakes on a nuclear reactor or coal fired plant at 5:00 pm. There is some recovery by pumping water up to reservoirs during the night and letting it run down through turbines in the peak hours. In the south hydro is king and the new enormous wind farms and improvements to the grid all help to distribute the energy from generation points to point of use more efficiently.
Illinois sells a lot of power and reaps a profit from this.
New technology both creates and destroys. Think of all the blacksmiths, saddle makers and saber makers that were cast aside when our military updated. ( Sorry, I just couldn't help myself).

I don't want to argue about it, that's just my opinion formed by my interpretation of what I learn. It is my opinion that there is always a winner and a loser. The canal barges replaced horse and wagon due to the government building canals, Canal barages gave way to the railroads due to massive government projects building the railways. Horse and buggy gave way to cars due to massive government roads projects. Trains gave way to air travel as the government pushed aircraft development for the war effort and built our airports and traffic control / navigation systems. Ma Bell gave up most of her wired subscribers as POTS was replaced by wireless carriers due to the government development of the internet and controlling and selling the bandwidth. Satellites replaced most ocean cables due to their space exploration.
You can get hung up on easy ( the status quo ), but that is akin to arguing the case for firemen on a diesel locomotive. The world moves on, it is Darwinian. Be a part of the next thing, not a relic of the past. Throughout our history the government has been responsible for many of the things we enjoy today. No one gets everything right the first time but not trying is not the answer.
PS. The communist government in China is doing quite well for now.