Earth day

I don't view the hours on the boat to be a major impact, the amount of gas I burn through in my boats is a small amount compared to cars and home. I bought a much more efficient heating system about 5 years ago, and we keep the house pretty cool. I do drive a gas guzzling Tahoe, but have run a very efficient Jeep Liberty diesel and a Suburban that ran 50% of the time on vegetable oil, so I've made some effort to be more GW friendly.

And, in my business I recycle around 600,000 gallons of waste vegetable oil per year that gets used to make biodiesel and a few other uses.

Having said all that - I'm very much a "to each his own" kind of person. If you choose to keep your house at 75 degrees in the winter and drive a Cadillac with a 500 cc engine, OK with me. I do think each of us has to do our part, but I don't want to ever be preaching to anyone about their lifestyle when it comes to energy use. I think simple economics will eventually drive people to being more responsible, or at least I hope so.

What I really get worked up about isn't individuals, it's our government's energy policy.

bhectus wrote: I've been following this thread loosely for a while and find it rather humorous the bickering from both sides. Not sure where I actually stand on the matter. There is a lot of evidence to support the climate change but I also think that weather is cyclical, just like the global economy, albeit on much different cycles.    I'd like to hear from the climate change proponents what you personally are doing to try and minimize or change it? Are you selling your coveted gas-guzzling, Co2 emitting Nautique and going with something much more efficient? Going to a more efficient tow-vehicle? Are you planting more trees in your yard? Let's hear some real examples of your personal effort. I see a lot of sideline cheerleaders but when it comes down to brass tax I see very little action. Just a casual observation. It's easy for people to rant and rave about something they believe in, it's another thing for people to actually take action to force change.

EXCELLENT POST!!! I couldn't have said it better. I do believe there are "long term" climate changes. Of course there are. Glaciers melted millions of years ago.

I also wonder what the proponents are doing to cut back on emmisions. I don't see Al Gore riding a bike, or taking a sailboat, around the world to preach about Climate Change. No, he flys in his gas guzzling personal jets. He sold his company to a company who's fortunes were derived from dirty oil.

Do as I say, and not as I do!

By the way Jamin, congrats on your new job! Welcome to the ranks of the over-taxed

What will you be doing?

Things I have done to minimize my carbon footprint:
1- I drive and tow with a 10 year old Saturn Ion. It gets up to 40mpg on the highway and about 22mpg towing. In the 10 years and 180,000 miles I have driven it I have saved more than 5,000 gallons of gasoline (and $14,000) over a Tahoe or P/U that I could have bought.

2- My wife and I traded her Grand Cherokee that was averaging 14mpg combined for a Ford Escape 4WD that averages 21 combined. Savings over the past 7 years. Savings, about 1,400 gallons of gasoline ( and $5,000).

3- I have changed most of my lighting to LED at a savings of about 85% of my energy used for lighting.

4- I installed a 96% efficient gas forced air furnace at my primary home.

5- I installed new windows and 30" of insulation in my primary home.

6- I installed a high efficiency furnace and 30" of insulation in my heated garage.

7- I sold my 64 Mark Twain with the Tower of Power environmental disaster to someone who uses it 2-4X per year instead of 100 plus hours. Replaced with the Mustang.

8- I modified my plumbing at my cottage so I can drain it with one valve and leave it un-heated for the winter. I can start it up in about 30 minutes if the urge strikes me but I have no desire for more snow and cold this winter.

9- I have invested in alternative energy companies to support them....and me.

This is not a comprehensive list and there are other things I am sure I have left out, but every little thing makes a difference. I do not belittle people for their gear head hobbies. It is fun to have a 500-600HP Nautique, muscle car, airplane, whatever. I feel it is about using energy efficiently where we can in our daily lives. The 6,500 gallons of gas I have saved in my current cars can offset a lot of skiing / footing / foiling. I really enjoy watching those sports. Sitting in traffic...not so much.

Brett, this is a good point, even if it is a complete red herring. After all, Al Gore can be right about climate change and still a hypocrite. It wouldn't be the first time such a thing has happened (though I'm not saying it helps matters).

The overwhelming weight of our economy and infrastructure are fossil fuel based, so it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to keep yourself from being a part of the problem on some level. That said, I try to live a modest lifestyle; I didn't own a car until I was 29. I ride my bike or the bus to work most days. I try not to eat too much meat (huge fuel inputs per pound of meat, along with water, etc...). But yeah, I drive around for fun sometimes, I fly from time to time, I definitely love burning gas in the boat... but given our infrastructure there isn't a good way to get around these problems.

That is why I am an advocate for government intervention. We need to move society as rapidly as we can away from this dangerous path, while maintaining as much economic stability as is reasonable. For example, over the next couple of decades we could transition to a world where we ski behind electric-powered boats powered by a decentralized grid of wind, solar, and nuclear power. That is the kind of future I am working towards, even if it means I have to give up some pleasures along the way (I would really miss the sound/smell of engine exhaust).

That is part of the reason I am active on this thread. Because the environment/atmosphere are a commons that we all enjoy when healthy and suffer from when damaged, it doesn't do any good if I am the only one who decides to go live off in a hut and eat berries just so that I can have my hands clean when the environment goes to sh!t. The real solutions only start when we can agree that there is a problem and it is time to make a change. Until then I'll try to get others to recognize that the problem is real while doing what I can to reasonably minimize my own impact, all the while recognizing that retreating myself from society in a veil of self-righteousness won't solve anything.

The below Edward Abbey quotes are depressing, but sum up how I feel based on everything I know. It is a complex world we live in, there are no easy answers, and nobody's hands are clean.

"Better a cruel truth than a comfortable delusion."

"One final paragraph of advice: do not burn yourselves out. Be as I am — a reluctant enthusiast... a part-time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the land; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it’s still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that yet sweet and lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, the lovely, mysterious, and awesome space."

Hansel wrote: I definitely love burning gas in the boat... but given our infrastructure there isn't a good way to get around these problems.

Jamin, there isn't a good way to get around them or you aren't ready to give up what you love yet for your ideals?

No offense to John or anyone else...

I support the free market by seeking to maximize my utility any way I can afford to do so, it is my god given right to do so. I put more miles on a full size truck and hours on a quite fuel thirsty boat in a year than the average full size truck and ski boat owner (who has to rank in the top .1 percent of the worlds global warming contributors) does in three.   I also feed more wood into a fireplace/camp fire in a year that many will in their lifetime.

Why would I attempt to solve a global problem through individual action? That’s why we have a government. One cant’ be expected to design their own air conditioner because every single one on the market used a high global warming potential. One can’t be expected to increase the available efficiency of a full size pickup truck on their own either. I own ford stock, so it’s my darn company but even so I can’t wrestle a small diesel pickup out of them, even though it is already designed and developed it doesn’t go right to the us market because gas is too cheap over here to justify the increased cost. The market can certainly produce these things but not until after it is far too late. If a refrigerant is one dollar cheaper per unit to produce than another refrigerant but using the cheaper refrigerant will destroy the universe one hundred years after you die then there is no market mechanism that will keep someone from making/selling the refrigerant that will destroy the world.   You can pay the extra dollar if you want, but your neighbor with no kids will destroy the world anyway so why bother.   It is an extreme example but not far from the truth.   

The economics around regulation, fees, and even subsidies is to attempt to apply the complete cost to society of the use of a product, such as gasoline, to the product so that the market can function well and ensure society reaches the optimum solution. When one simply lies to justify pushing that cost to future generations then not only is that cost deferred to those who did not see the benefit, but because in reality it is much harder to put a cat back in a bag than it is to keep it there in the first place, then the costs themselves grow exponentially. We could feel a tiny bit of pain now spread mostly on those who gain the most from the emission of carbon, or we can throw a ton of pain on everyone later.   

I work on teams that design and make improvements to equipment,many that end up on the cutting room floor because even though they would save the end customer many many many times what they add to the cost of the product most of the products I have designed are not sold to the eventual owner. Another type of market inefficiency, The only way for that end user to ever have a chance at getting the best possible system, both for the environment and for their pocket book is one of them there evil regulations to occur.   Of course I am as selfish as anyone, I am a well-educated innovator that produces cleaner and more efficient products that those companies that simply copy earlier designs, so having an efficient market that rewards cleaner and more efficient products would tend to reward me, but I don’t feel bad about it as last I checked that was what the market was supposed to do.   

David G,
The dust bowl is a funny one for a denier to bring up, it is a pertinent example but not in the way you used it.
It is accepted fact that human activities greatly contributed to the dust bowl, in this case not global warming but poor farming practices.   It is also great example of things that become much more expensive to fix after the fact. Once 500000 people were displaced the government response required was huge. Silly to think now that we take seriously people worried about a few windmills going up effecting wind patterns when after the dust bowl government programs planted 200 million trees to do just that.   

Hansel wrote: That is why I am an advocate for government intervention. We need to move society as rapidly as we can away from this dangerous path, while maintaining as much economic stability as is reasonable. For example, over the next couple of decades we could transition to a world where we ski behind electric-powered boats powered by a decentralized grid of wind, solar, and nuclear power.

   Now do you really think the average Joe like you and I would be able to afford an electric-powered ski boat that performs as well as either of the boats we currently own? I HIGHLY doubt it. Government intervention goes against everything this country stands for.

bhectus wrote: Hansel wrote: That is why I am an advocate for government intervention. We need to move society as rapidly as we can away from this dangerous path, while maintaining as much economic stability as is reasonable. For example, over the next couple of decades we could transition to a world where we ski behind electric-powered boats powered by a decentralized grid of wind, solar, and nuclear power.    Now do you really think the average Joe like you and I would be able to afford an electric-powered ski boat that performs as well as either of the boats we currently own? I HIGHLY doubt it. Government intervention goes against everything this country stands for.

This country we all enjoy is the product of 238 years of government intervention.
As to the electric ski boat, good luck with that! They do make LPG ski boats and CNG is another great option.

I'm guessing some of you remember theSki Nautique E.

Ski boats are not the problem though, just a distraction in the conversation. A false choice between environmental responsibility and recreation. I maintain we can have both, and in fact, need the first to have the second.

   Now do you really think the average Joe like you and I would be able to afford an electric-powered ski boat that performs as well as either of the boats we currently own? I HIGHLY doubt it. Government intervention goes against everything this country stands for. [/QUOTE]
all the arguments above on both sides have merit but what average joe can afford a new "gas" ski boat these days................ just kidding but they are so overpriced it isnt funny..

Actually Quinner, you might be more correct than you realize...

Is the Universe a simulation?

Do we live in the Matrix?

There is so much here I wanted to comment on today, but time is precious tonight so this is the one I just cant let go by.

john b wrote: This country we all enjoy is the product of 238 years of government intervention.

John, what we enjoy is 232 years of a constitutionally limited government. The last 6 years that has been "fundamentally changed"

We of course need some levels of government, but our constitution is unique in that in that it grants powers to individuals while placing limits on government. That is what made us great, and that is precisely what so many want to abandon and replace with what has made so many others average or below average. Our founders knew that power corrupts, and that corruption grows exponentially as to the size of government. President Obama said this week that the global warming argument is over and we have to make changes, Soon he will take another vacation flying himself and his family on separate jets, and flying cargo planes worth of armored limo's and who knows what other support equipment. This of course produces far more Co2 per hour than My v8 boat will produce in its life time, but the government solution will be to restrict my 50 hours a year of ski boat use, while offering unlimited carbon production to our political elite. That is what big government intervention gets us.

As for me, I recycle with enthusiasm, I replaced my furnace 3 years ago with 97% efficient, added attic insulation the year I moved in, and I am slowly changing over my light bulbs to LED's, all because I know as an individual that these things are good for my planet, community, and family budget. I don't need the government to tell me when or how to make these changes. When they live up to there responsibilities they can start to talk to me about mine.   

Jamin,

I took the blue pill, lol

It got stuck in my throat and now I have a stiff neck??

JoeinNY wrote: This isn’t all or nothing stuff, it is about taking reasonable steps and letting a fair market reward the best solutions and not the guys who have the most lobbyists and propagandists. The future is gonna happen one way or the other, the question is do we need to turn america into another dust bowl before we do something about it.

Joe, really well done post.

There is no economic reason why aggressively pursuing fuel conservation and alternative fuels would be a mistake. We can discuss GW all day, is it here, is it not, is it man made, is it not, but I have yet to hear a valid argument as to why we need to wait another 20 years to gather more evidence one way or the other before TAKING STEPS TO USE LESS FOSSIL FUEL.

Our government has not taken the proper lead in this. To simply think that BP and ExxonMobil will do what's best for us is ludicrous.