Earth day

Right Bret, every person getting government assistance is a drug dealer or lazy bum. Talk about being out of touch. I know lots of people that get some sort of state or federal assistance. Are there a few that should be picking themselves up and doing a better job of providing for themselves? Yes. But they are the small minority, nearly all that I've experienced have a genuine need of help.

I also don't know any rich people that have sold the vacation condo and the Beemer due to their tax situation.

This thread demonstrates perfectly how political GW is. Whether it exists or not doesn't matter, only what political side you're on. And welfare fraud, why don't the Democrats even want to look into it. They don't care if people are scamming the system. Our Republican governor is under attack every time he tries to investigate it. He says there would be more money for people that need it, if others that are getting more than they should weren't. Makes sense to me, but he gets accused of waging war on the poor whenever he tries to launch any type of investigation on welfare fraud.

David, Do you think New Hampshire is better off since it flipped from a solid conservative Republican state to a Massachusetts influenced progressive state?

A fair market is the fundamental requirement of capitalism. The whole free market thing don’t work without it. That there is ‘merica brother. In ‘merica we don’t give people more influence because of who they are or how much money their father made. In ‘merica the one that provides the best most efficient solution should get the rewards.   The sacrifices of all our fore-fathers and veterans on the battlefields were not to provide a place where we are free to be born into poverty and serve the lords until you die at which point your children would serve their children.   Clean water and air are not just for rich in ‘merica… pursuit of happiness my friend implies fairness. It is why man gives up some of his liberty to form a government. Without the opportunity of a fair shot there is no incentive to work hard and innovate.

I am not against welfare fraud investigation but it typically consumes more resources than it saves, and is usually promoted as a way to get the middle class to blame someone else for the fact that they pay more than their fair share in taxes. If you want to complain about disability abuses I am right with you but welfare was reformed under Clinton to a very minimal program.   The question I would be more concerned about is why republicans feel the need to deprive the IRS of the resources to investigate tax fraud, it is at least 4 times (using conservative estimates of fraud and a broad definition of welfare) what we spend on welfare each year. Also considerably larger than what we spend on welfare is what we spend on business subsidies.   So more of Brets taxes from his 60 hour week of work end up in the pockets of corporate welfare recipients than in those low lifes down the street.    15% of what he is paying as a non tax cheat is going to cover the fair share of taxes not being paid by those who do “cheat”.

Beware the smoke and mirrors… who has the most to gain by ignoring the scientific reality of global warming… who is paying the bills of those who are denying the scientific reality of global warming, paid propaganda isn’t politics.

Joe, you bring up excellent points, they are all very valid and I agree wholeheartedly.

63 Skier wrote: bhectus wrote: That's not my idea of fair when I see drug dealers and lazy bums sitting at home collecting government checks while I'm busting my ass working 60 hours a week. Other than my personal morals and ethics, and my wanting to be a bountiful provider for my family there is absolutely no reason for me to bust my ass when I can sit at home, watch TV all day, eat McDonalds and collect an unemployment check for well over a year. My apologies Bret, I don't mean to mis-represent what you say, you definitely DID NOT say "all". But my point is this - are you OK busting your ass at work (and I'm guessing all us CCFan's are doing the same, pretty solid bunch of people), to help provide for those less fortunate, that have one type of struggle or another and need some help? I can't imagine what this country would look like if we were not willing to help those less fortunate.

Apology accepted David. My point is where is the line drawn to how much help? Gainesville is a very liberal town, we have a bunch of outreach centers, halfway houses, etc. As a result we have many more transients/panhandlers/bums/addicts, etc than I ever saw in Orlando which is a much bigger city. When people continue to be given things it decreases their willingness and motivation to better themselves and to work for the things they have/earn. Yes, there are many people that truly need help. The government's job is to determine who does and who does not and it's not getting done. It's easy for them to just say it is unmanageable and is easier not to spend time policing it. With that attitude do you think it will get better or worse?

63 Skier wrote: Back to our regularly scheduled global warming conversation. As Bruce said above, amazing how political the discussion of GW really is.

Climate change is a scientific question that has a scientific answer. It is real.

What to do about it is political. That is where the actual debate lies.

The fact that anyone confuses the two is evidence as to just how successful these "merchants of doubt" (to borrow a phrase) have been.

Don't let yourself get bamboozled by those who deny climate change because they might not like the medicine. I can't think of a more bass ackwards way to do things.

Come on Bret, you know I mean Anthropogenic (caused by people) Climate Change when I say "climate change."

Yeah, the climate naturally fluctuates... We went over this pages ago.

The question is are humans causing this most recent, very rapid, change in the climate. And the answer is yes.

This is occurring over top of the backdrop of natural cycles, not because of them.

Scientists are some of the worst marketers out there. I can assure you if they had half the skill at selling the facts as the fraudsters do their lies we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The complete memo is here in PDF
Kunitz climate change memo to President Bush

I believe it is uninformed, rude, and disrespectful to make blanket statements regarding those needing assistance. Based on my own personal experience of working in section 8 housing for more than 20 years, most recently delivering Meals on Wheels, I find that they are mainly populated by the mentally and physically disabled, the elderly with no family support or savings, including MANY veterans, single mothers, divorced mothers,and widowed mothers. Most of these people have no transportation and many of the elderly have multiple prescriptions to treat numerous physical and mental conditions. They rely on others to bring them the 5 lunches they receive each week while the volunteers do a quick assessment of their living conditions to notify what few social services workers are available to them. They rely on others to get their groceries, be it by link card of cash, take them to doctors visits, and help them with the tasks they are unable to perform any longer. Many of these disabled elderly patients are on narcotic mess for pain associated with age, injury, arthritis, surgery, and other medical conditions. Fentanyl, Ocycodone, Morphine, Hydrocodone and others are commonly prescribed and changed as needs and tolerance change.
So you want these people to crawl to the grocery store to personally present their link card, crawl to the doctor to have their blood drawn and tested for substances many have prescriptions for, and lose their benefits, including those that help to feed, cloth, and educate their children who had no choice in the matter?
I suggest you spend some of your time volunteering in these areas before you discard some of our most volnerable citizens.
Remember, a protracted illness, loss of the ability to work, or a chronically ill spouse or child is all that stands between many of us and section 8 housing and government assistance.

peter1234 wrote: Geee John we must live in different worlds funny but you were the first person i thought would shoot holes in what i said I wonder why i thought of that.

We don't live in different worlds. We can enjoy many of the better things in life, ski boats included. i visit the other world frequently. It is not a place I would like to live.
Have you spent time in public housing? How many people do you know living in public housing well enough to stop in for coffee and a visit? What data set or personal experience do you have that established these opinions?
Maybe you knew I would respond because you know I have spent time there. Maybe it's just because you're a smart guy. I can't accurately answer for your insight.

Of course I have. I can't find an industry where this does not apply. Do you think with my experiences I would think there aren't scammers out there...everywhere? That's all I did for 20 years and believe me, there is job security in this profession.
Let me say this and it may sound quite abrasive. I do not want to start an insult thread on this great site. That being said I believe that as a landlord accepting government funds, you bear many responsibilities including the reporting of fraud. Since your income is derived from your cut on the governments public housing payments it is important to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. To accept this government housing money, to accept it and not report that it was fraudulently obtained makes you complicent in the fraud.
Anyone receiving government money has a duty to the taxpayers and country to report if it is mis-spent. I realize, that may mean one of your units stands vacant.
I am impressed that you would admit that a portion, if not all, of your income has been derived from government subsidized housing money then say most of it is wasted. The redeeming factor is that some is it is invested in using, preserving, and maintaining these classic Correct Crafts.
Cheers!

I didn't take any offense. I've taken tenants from both Section 8 and Catholic Charities, but not because that federal money was so good. Usually because I felt bad for the person and they seemed like they needed a chance. But 3 weeks later when that poor single mother you felt bad for has her bum boyfriend living in the unit, no one wants to hear about it.

Peter is in a market that probably compares to your poorer areas of Chicago.

We got another 8" of snow and $700 of fuel oil yesterday. GW seems a bit ridiculous right now.

Riley wrote: We got another 8" of snow and $700 of fuel oil yesterday. GW seems a bit ridiculous right now.

That is weather. Weather is not climate. The South is warmer than the north, but they still have a winter (of sorts). The point is that winter won't go away (at least not anytime soon) it will just be warmer (again, on average).

Global warming/climate change is about climate; e.g. long term averages over the entire globe.

I came across this yesterday during my daily reading. I think it sums things up nicely. For all of you who say, "But, but, but... temperatures haven't gone up in 16 (last year it was 15, two years ago it was 14, etc...) years!" this visual nicely illustrates why that kind of thinking is erroneous.

It is me or does it seem that this cold winter does have the GW folks a bit annoyed. Jamin, nice chart, but I'm suspicious of the source. I'm going to continue to do what I've been doing all along and just get up in the morning and go to work, and let everyone else worry about it. And I'm not about to ditch the Correct Crafts for some blow boats.

They will never get my Correct Craft!
I have located LED bulbs (are they really called photon generators?) to replace the 1004 bulbs in the nav and anchor light fixtures and the instrument lights so I'm doing my part.
Sorry Pete!