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small block chevy timing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2014 at 11:48am
Gottaski, I realize the every engine is different thing. Most of my engine knowledge comes from drag racing. And a general rule for small blocks is between 34*/38. Some like 36 some like more. I was just looking for that safe range that most run. My motor was intentionally kept around nine to one. As my opinion building a boat motor is a lot like building a truck engine for pulling heavy loads. Ping is very easy to run into with high compression combined with high running temps and high timing crappy fuel etc. I just didnt want to base my knowledge of timing this thing from the auto side. I thought there mightbe a chance with the constant loads a marine engine has that in the boat world the timing might be a little less aggressive. I think if tim is running 34* on that big block with ten to one im probably ok with the thirty six at nine to one. After all im only 46 cubes away from tim with less compression.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2014 at 7:05pm
forvicjr, your engine is unique, the Vortec heads were never factory on a SBC 400. They are a very good head up to 5,500 RPM. In many tests they hold their own against AFR, Dart, Edelbrock and many other quality aftermarket heads.
The Vortec uses a small chamber with a very good design. You will find a Vortec design maxes power at about 28 degree's total timing.

If you were running other design heads the GM small blocks perform best with 36 degree's approximately. Some use 1 or 2 more or less depending on the combination. Hypereutectic pistons are very popular today and they reflect more heat into the chamber, the extra heat reflection will have you backing the timing off 1 or 2 degree's compared to a forged or factory cast piston.
The Vortec head is the best factory flowing small block GM head ever built even though it runs 1.94 intake valves and 1.5 exhaust but with your 400 inches you will max the head around 5,500 RPM.
Because of the small chamber used in the Vortec heads you will have very high compression unless your pistons use a deep dish design I would bet you are actually at 10.5:1 or more.
The 5.7 Rod combo really helps your 400 internally, it takes a lot of side load out of the piston and free's up power and efficiency.
Hope you get to enjoy it. .040 over, so you are running a 408. Big engine, nice, I bet it pulls like a freight train.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2014 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

forvicjr, your engine is unique, the Vortec heads were never factory on a SBC 400. They are a very good head up to 5,500 RPM. In many tests they hold their own against AFR, Dart, Edelbrock and many other quality aftermarket heads.
The Vortec uses a small chamber with a very good design. You will find a Vortec design maxes power at about 28 degree's total timing.

If you were running other design heads the GM small blocks perform best with 36 degree's approximately. Some use 1 or 2 more or less depending on the combination. Hypereutectic pistons are very popular today and they reflect more heat into the chamber, the extra heat reflection will have you backing the timing off 1 or 2 degree's compared to a forged or factory cast piston.
The Vortec head is the best factory flowing small block GM head ever built even though it runs 1.94 intake valves and 1.5 exhaust but with your 400 inches you will max the head around 5,500 RPM.
Because of the small chamber used in the Vortec heads you will have very high compression unless your pistons use a deep dish design I would bet you are actually at 10.5:1 or more.
The 5.7 Rod combo really helps your 400 internally, it takes a lot of side load out of the piston and free's up power and efficiency.
Hope you get to enjoy it. .040 over, so you are running a 408. Big engine, nice, I bet it pulls like a freight train.


Mrmcd you are correct with what you said about vortec heads. I have ran them on several motors in the past. They perform very well for the money. I will correct you on my comp ratio as im sure of what I have. I personally CCed the Mahl pistons and chambers of the vortecs. Im sure you know you can very easily aquire compression with these heads especially with the bore and stroke im running. Im running dish pistons that I had my machinest deepen the valve reliefs and running extra thick (0.051) head gaskets to cut the compression back. I didnt want anything higher as I once built a sb for pulling and went a little stupid with the CR and it did not like it. I had to run the vac advance to manifold vac to pull timing out of the thing as load increased just to stop the pinging. Lol. Ill never do that again.

Edit. Also the pistons pin hieght is custom to my application. The block I used was a zero deck block from a previous build. I ordered the pistons with a higher pin height to compensate also. ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2014 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by forvicjr forvicjr wrote:

Tim the bent shaft went with my buddy to his work. He is a cnc supervisor. He put it on a machinist table and said that he couldnt get a three thosandths shim under it anywhere. I installed in the boat and found later that was bent just aft of the log.

Vic,
It sounds like your supervisor friend needs some training! The best way is not on a "machine table" as you call it. Hopefully it was a granite surface plate. Properly, you set up the shaft in V blocks, put a dial indicator on it and rotate the shaft. Aft of the strut on the taper is very common due to prop hits especially if there is too much shaft between the prop and strut. WHY didn't your friend check the shaft at the taper???


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2014 at 9:00pm
Sounds like you are all over the proper compression ratio, glad to hear it. I have seen guys destroy pistons putting Vortec heads on without other changes.
The timing difference is real if running Vortec you will probably be happy at 28 degree's total. It has to do with the chamber design.
Mahle makes good pistons and they are forged so you have extra insurance against failure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-18-2014 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by forvicjr forvicjr wrote:

Tim the bent shaft went with my buddy to his work. He is a cnc supervisor. He put it on a machinist table and said that he couldnt get a three thosandths shim under it anywhere. I installed in the boat and found later that was bent just aft of the log.

Vic,
It sounds like your supervisor friend needs some training! The best way is not on a "machine table" as you call it. Hopefully it was a granite surface plate. Properly, you set up the shaft in V blocks, put a dial indicator on it and rotate the shaft. Aft of the strut on the taper is very common due to prop hits especially if there is too much shaft between the prop and strut. WHY didn't your friend check the shaft at the taper???



Pete. Glad to hear from the grumpy ole man.lol I told him to check it and that how he did it. He is very anal and I think it was ok. I think something happened to it during the stringer replacement after he checked it. It was sitting around in the shop and could have gotten damaged in that time. I found it by holding a sharpie against the hull at the log and rotated the shaft. The marker showed a high spot half way around the shaft.After seeing that I seen no need for a dial indicator. This I think he would have spotted on the " granite surface table" lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2014 at 9:02pm
Vic,
Sorry but I don't believe anything during the stringer replacement project could have bent it. Try and bend a 1" shaft by hand cold sometime!

Unless your friend had set up a dial indicator on the granite, I question how he was measuring the taper section with feeler gauges. You found it with a Sharpie!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2014 at 11:08am
I dono pete. Where the bend is would be right smack in the middle of the shaft. Roll the thing across the table and it would be hopping around like a rabbit. Seriously I never measured it but im sure you would be stacking many feeler gauges to measure it. Any way its fixed now. Still a mystery though. Im not convinced he missed it. And the boat didnt vibrate before the stringer replacement. Hell who knows lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2014 at 11:22am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Vic,
Sorry I a 1" shaft!

Unless your friend had set up a dial indicator on the granite, I question how he was measuring the taper section with feeler gauges. You found it with a Sharpie!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forvicjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-22-2014 at 12:28pm
Whatever gets the job done...lol...:-D
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