89 2001 Not Idling |
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Have Fun!
Newbie Joined: April-24-2014 Location: Columbus Ohio Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: April-26-2014 at 8:30pm |
Hey guys, first post, been lucking since mid winter. Just picked up an 89 2001, when I picked it up the previous owner (a close friend) stated the boat "just came from the marina from winter storage, they put a new fuel pump in it and said it runs great" was supposed to run perfectly but I'm betting the marina never water tested... As soon as I got home I dropped it in and it runs but won't idle. Opened the engine cover and noticed fuel leaking from both ends of the fuel line (pump to carb).
Spent today pulling the carb apart and while it was dirty, nothing catastrophic. I did find a slightly dirty jet, hoping that was the culprit but it wasn't. Hoping someone can point me in the right direction or let me know if further details are needed. -Cheers! |
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Waterdog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-27-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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Vacuum leak, vacuum leak ? Lightly spray some carb cleaner/WD 40 around the carb base and intake while running does it change RPM ?
Idle 800 rpm in gear ? Idle mixture screws 1 - 1.5 from the seat ? Choke set with a 1/8 drill bit closed ? Timing set 10* btdc ? Need a little more to go on ? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Ross,
Welcome to CCfan. Yes, we need some more information as Andy has requested and answering his questions which are all good. How about some pictures? We always ask for them. A diary entry is always a good move as well. It sure sounds like that "marina" is full of back yard hacks!! Who was is so other members don't make the mistake of taking their boat there. Were they even a CC dealer?? Why did they put a new fuel pump in it? Did they even bother to check the pressure?? With that leak, did they even tighten the flare nuts? Hopefully the line is steel and not back yard rubber! |
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Have Fun!
Newbie Joined: April-24-2014 Location: Columbus Ohio Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Thanks guys! I'll snap a few pics tomorrow and get some engine and carb numbers as well, just picked up a new camera lens and need an excuse to test it out! Fuel line was an easy fix, was a little loose but nothing too bad, pulled it off gave the flanges and hardware a quick polish with the wire wheel, no leaks upon reinstall.
Not sure about a vacuum leak on the carb base, gaskets are new(er) and in really good shape, I pulled the spacer block off and spent a good hour freshening up all the surfaces with emery cloth. I'll give it a test with some carb cleaner tomorrow. If memory serves right it wouldn't idle any point under 1200 RPM. Haven't checked Idle screws or choke settings yet, wasn't sure what they should be. Planning to check timing and point gap tomorrow as well. Thanks for the responses even though I was a light on specifics, it was a long day in the garage! |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Sounds like plugged idle circuits in the carb. You may have to soak it & then run some fine wire through the passages to clean it out. But just a guess on my part.
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Bones71
Senior Member Joined: March-09-2013 Location: Bettendorf Ia Status: Offline Points: 334 |
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When I had that issue my secondaries were not closing right. It had some little pieces of white crap in there not letting them close and gas was getting by causing it to not idle correctly. ??
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That money talks, I'll not deny, I heard it once: It said 'Goodbye'
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Have Fun!
Newbie Joined: April-24-2014 Location: Columbus Ohio Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Spent the morning working on the boat. No vacuum leaks around any of the base gaskets, Proper voltage at Choke and the choke gap was good. Haven't gotten it running long enough to check idle screws or timing. Checked point gap, was at .013 reset to recommended .018, Pulled plugs to check gap, gap was 40 I believe recommended gap is 35 also I believe plugs to be wrong, Autolite 25's are installed, not the recommended 203 or 3303. Haven't dove into the internet to check for cross references yet.
Lastly I believe the engine may be right hand rotation... All drive belts are rotating clockwise, but i'm not sure if something in the transmission might switch it to left hand... Can't keep em all straight. Can anyone tell by my serial card the rotation? Model: PLD-PR-R12/PP Serial: 292344 Firing order: 13726548 Given that I'm perceiving plugs, plug gaps, and point gap to be wrong, I tried to confirm my plug wires were also installed properly. I'm using the PCM Ford & Chevy 89 manual from the reference page on here and my wiring from distributor to plugs doesn't match any of the layouts in the manual. If anyone has any knowledge of the proper layout I wanted to confirm proper firing sequence before I dove any deeper. I've included a diagram below of the current layout. Let me know if anyone needs a specific shot. In regards to Bones 71 I did clean the cab but didn't dip it, I removed all of the surface white corrosion but there very well could be some in the hinge points, if so a full dip may be in order... Thanks again everyone for the help! |
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Have Fun!
Newbie Joined: April-24-2014 Location: Columbus Ohio Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Captain obvious strikes... Looking at the firing order on my engine ID tag... If I cross reference that with page 16 of the manual I've got a left hand rotation ford based engine. Guess it just too me diagraming it out t make sense of the rat nest layout.
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Bri892001
Grand Poobah Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Can you tell if your choke flap is kicking open at all after it fires? If everything is working ok, it should kick open just a little after the engine starts. Then, slowly, it should open fully, as the electricity heats up the coil in the choke cap.
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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You aren't going to be able to do anything until you tune that sucker up.
You done good by resetting the point and plug gaps. I keep thinking the correct Autolite plug should be a 24 but I'll defer to those that would know for sure. As soon as you reset the point gap the timing is now way off. Verify the cap and rotor are clean or just replace while you're at it and start fresh. When cold the choke should have a small 1/16"-1/8" gap. As soon as you turn the key on or get it started, it should slowly start to open up. The pic looks like it's completely shut. Then set the timing, idle RPM and idle mixture after it's warmed up. By the way, your plug wiring is dead on. Don't mess with that. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Online Points: 6157 |
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24 is on the money Eddie.
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Have Fun!
Newbie Joined: April-24-2014 Location: Columbus Ohio Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Bri892001, coke flap does open after it fires. There was proper gap earlier but I agree it appears closed in the photo, spring cover may of spun a little during reinstall. I'll recheck and reset the gap if need be.
Backfoot100, Thanks for the reassurance, going to try and turn it over sometime today. If the point gap effects timing, is it possible timing may be off too much for it to even fire? If that's the case should I reset point gap, then incrementally adjust both timing and point gap till everything is properly set? Cap and rotor are clean, entire distributor and plug wires look practically brand new. Thanks again for the advise! I'm used to working on Motocross engines, these are whole new animal, so many variables! |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Online Points: 6157 |
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No, set the point gap at the proper spec and adjust the ignition timing from there. If it's too far off to fire you need to just move the dizzy as you crank. Or you can set the engine to TDC compression stroke on the 1 cylinder, pop the cap off, point the rotor directly at the #1 cylinder plug wire, slightly advance from there, and it will probably start right up.
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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+1 Zach is dead on. He also confirmed the Autolite 24's. The 25's are either one range colder or hotter (I don't recall on the Autolites, I'm really a Chevy guy so I run AC). I would change them out beforehand. The 25's will run but get the right ones in there before you start just to make sure. Eliminate as many variables as possible. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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After checking cap and rotor condition I'm thinking he may want to verify firing order. His drawing looks correct as long as the #1 wire is in fact that.
I would bring the #1 cylinder to TDC on compression stroke open the cap and confirm by position of the rotor where #1 is. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Online Points: 6157 |
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Eddie and Paul are on it. Just completely check everything you can that way you aren't chasing your tail. You also need to verify that the ballast resistor is working properly as they have a tendency to fuse the springs together as they have been through 1000s of heat cycles over 25 years. That really isn't going effect cold start though unless it has already began to destroy the coil. This is just going back to checking everything out.
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Have Fun!
Newbie Joined: April-24-2014 Location: Columbus Ohio Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Don't laugh... How do you verify TDC on these motors? I'm betting it's a little more involved than putting a wrench on the crank and looking through a sight window like my mx bikes.
Thanks guys! |
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Have Fun!
Newbie Joined: April-24-2014 Location: Columbus Ohio Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Zach can you point me toward a resource for verifying the resistor? Might as well verify the coil while I'm at it.
Also I shot ya an email, need to pick up a few parts for the project. Hopefully you guys can order them or help me source some. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Ross it's no big deal. Remove all the plugs(that will make it easier) get a breaker bar and socket have someone rotate the motor in the correct rotation while you put your thumb over the #1 plug hole. When you feel the pressure your on the compression stroke. I put a wood dowel in through the plug hole and slowly rotate the motor watching the dowel. When the dowel goes out to the furthest point then starts to drop that's TDC.
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Have Fun!
Newbie Joined: April-24-2014 Location: Columbus Ohio Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Simple enough! Thanks!
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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PS
When you find that spot you should also be showing TDC on the timing marks |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Online Points: 6157 |
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Go buy a decent volt meter (multi meter). Read the instructions on how to turn the dial to Voltage. With the boat running you should see about a 5 volt drop from one side of the ballast to the other. So like 12.5 to 7.5 Volts. If its creeping up near 9-10 volts on the output side while running it needs replaced. That type of voltage won't kill the coil really fast but it will eventually(after a long time). Coils usually cause misfires or a dying problem especially when it's hot or or you have been running the boat a long time or very hard. Simple stuff just things that need to be checked to give you a long good running summer. |
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Have Fun!
Newbie Joined: April-24-2014 Location: Columbus Ohio Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Got a meter, I'll check it out! Thanks!
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