Slalom driver help |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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Posted: April-28-2014 at 5:47pm |
Been getting serious this summer about skiing. I have some rather realistic goals set for me to accomplish by Labor Day. Part of the goal was to master a deep water slalom start. I was doing real good and think I had it mastered then all of a sudden I've gone to poo. I don't know any skiers except my dad who hasn't skied in 40 years and he's been trying to improve my wife's skills as a tow driver.
I'm pretty certain I have it down to my wife is ripping me out of the water and I think subsequently injured my arms after repeatedly trying to get up thinking the problem was me. I think she's giving my SN full throttle from a dead stop when I yell hit it and the ropes long gone before I can hang on. Seems like before I was dragged and pulled onto plane. Idk where this lead foot came from and she says she doesn't realize it. My question is, what rate/speed do y'all pull up skiers? Do y'all punch it so hard or medium steady pull? I'm pretty certain I'm going to swap props to try and slow down hole shot. Never thought I'd do that. |
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C-Bass
Platinum Member Joined: November-18-2008 Location: Columbus, IN Status: Offline Points: 1248 |
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The driver should be applying a steady increase in throttle, not just slamming it down to WFO. With proper form/technique, you should be able to get up even with a really slow take-off.
Changing props to slow her down is ridiculous IMO. You could tell her what you would like her to change, finish the argument, apologize for critizing her driving, and still get all that done faster than pulling a prop. |
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bhectus
Platinum Member Joined: July-04-2010 Location: Gator Country! Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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Could be your form. My wife isn't the gentlest throttle-jockey on the planet either. Tuck your knees about halfway into your chest with the tip straight up and as soon as she hits the throttle, you need to use your knees as shock absorbers and let the force tuck them in a little further into your chest as you roll forward, once you feel like you are coming out of the water, slowly stand up.
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'02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold
'87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
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halfnelly
Senior Member Joined: January-14-2013 Location: Maitland, FL Status: Offline Points: 253 |
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She should be rolling into the throttle with a tight line. Are you getting up with both feet in? If you have an open rear toe, a one-legged start will get you out of the water much quicker and with less strain than keeping both feet in because it allows the ski to plane off much sooner. Of course, if you have double-fixed boots, you don't have much choice but to drag a bit.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Back foot in the ski and leaning back make everything worse. You're fighting the boat and losing. Unless you have a bunch of slack you should be able to get up on a hard or soft pull.
Go with the boat. Approved PFD for maximum flotation. Thigh to the chest, knee between your elbows. Arms out. Do this right and you will notice your ski tip pointing forwards, not straight up in the air. All of this is easier with your back foot out. When done properly your hair will be dry and your eyes open the whole time. |
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bhectus
Platinum Member Joined: July-04-2010 Location: Gator Country! Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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+1, I left this out. And back arched like a dog taking a $h!t. You should be up in the first 10'. |
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'02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold
'87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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Changing props to slow her down is ridiculous IMO. You could tell her what you would like her to change, finish the argument, apologize for critizing her driving, and still get all that done faster than pulling a prop.[/QUOTE] Haha, you don't know my wife. If there is any hope in her and I being a ski team I better slow my boat or learn to get ripped. My wife does not take any critizism on anything. But she can load any of our boats better and quicker than me or anyone else at the ramp. And I thought I was a hot shot at the ramp. |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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My form seems to follow this description: howtogetupononeski.com. I'm sure Pete will correct that link
Mistakes I've learned I was making: Standing up too soon. I knew to wait for the boat to pull you up all my life but didn't understand nor feel this until recently. Once I got the feel, no problem. It was so simple to me that I continually overlooked. Another was I used to worry about the ski pointing at 2:00 so I ended up doing everything I could to move to 12:00 which resulted in expelled energy and getting dragged. I'm demoing skis and mostly stick with rear toe plate. I always would do 2 ski start then drop but that's just a hassle at this point. When I'm doing deep water starts I keep both feet in the binding/RTP. Keeping one foot out is something I don't understand and seems awkward/harder. I was keeping my arms tucked in, like I was fornicating the handle. Which took arm strength but was ok with me until past 2 weeks. I played with keeping arms out which seemed awkward but hadn't ruled this out. In past 2 weeks I've tried this more bc arm injury but unsuccessful. Do yall keep arms out and locked or slightly bent? My most successful day was 2 Fridays ago. Weather was awful. Defiinite chop and spitting rain. Wifey was nervous and when she's nervous she goes slower. I was demoing a CX superlite w double bindings. My first time on doubles but I thought to try bc it was free. While demoing I kept climbing up 1 notch on skis until I feel the ski is too advanced for me. I looked like Sammy Freaking Duval this night. I got up every time and skied and felt great and confident. I'd ski 60 seconds, drop then take off again for the practice for my wife and I. Bindings were putting strain in a different spot on my rear leg so I skied easy, didn't want to tire out on a friday. did 3 rounds this way and perfect. But the doubles seemed to help my starts by correcting my form, if that's possible. Went out the following morning.... and all hell as broke out ever since. |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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FWIW, Performance Ski and Surf is doing a customer appreciation day with Mike Rini this weekend. I'm scheduled for a 9:30 lesson but after the past 2 weeks Im nervous if I can ski. Thinking it will be more of a communication and form & stance lesson from land rather than a pull from the boat.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Arms totally out, relaxed actually. Anything else is a waste of energy.
All these pointers seem awkward because they are not what you're used to but that's only because your been doin it the hard way all this time. Your bad habits are just exposed by your driver and kick ass Acme prop! |
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Swatkinz
Platinum Member Joined: December-03-2003 Location: Lexington, SC Status: Offline Points: 1307 |
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[/QUOTE]
Haha, you don't know my wife. If there is any hope in her and I being a ski team I better slow my boat or learn to get ripped. My wife does not take any critizism on anything. But she can load any of our boats better and quicker than me or anyone else at the ramp. And I thought I was a hot shot at the ramp.[/QUOTE] It's as if we're married to the same woman. I find that there needs to be about a 5:1 ratio of praise vs. constructive criticism and the criticism better be delivered with the right tone. But....she can back a trailer better than any woman I know and drive a boat on as good as anybody. |
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Steve
2011 Sport/Air 200 Excalibur 343 2017 Boatmate Tandem Axle Trailer Former CC owner (77, 80, 95, 88, all SNs) Former Malibu owner (07, 09) |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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10:1 for mine. I do the trailer backing. She wants to learn but baby steps, Lets perfect towing a skier first. I do get a kick out of how almost every couple gets in a fight at the ramp, 90% of the time its because the trailer is too deep and neither spouse can figure out thats the problem. And then we pass them.
When in the water waiting to take off, what angle is the best angle for the ski? (side view) Perpendicular to the water, 45 degrees, almost parallel to water surface like 160 degrees? I been doing some thinking, I've been putting my ski at a high angle, like almost parallel to the surface if that makes sense. Which puts more strain on my arms, less on legs. I was doing fine when she was taking off slow and uncertain but as the speed and confidence went up, I was just getting my arms ripped off. Gonna try one time tomorrow. Ive also been putting possibly more ski tip out of the water than I should, inch recommendation? Thanks guys. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
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I tell new drivers to pull out a skier the same way they pull a car away from a stop light, give it s little gas and let the speed catch up.
I have them practice several times before I get behind the boat. A friend bought a new Fuel Injected boat when they first came out and loved to floor it and show how much power it had. The only thing accomplished was pulled muscles and damaged discs in backs. The boats have an excess of power that does not need to be used unless you are pulling out 4-5 deep water starts at once. ( we did 7 once ) My old 78 Nautique was only good for 4 with a 13x14 prop. |
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dwouncmd
Gold Member Joined: July-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 919 |
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I am no expert, but lots of good advice. Snug rope, a little throttle then more (I like the stoplight analogy), sitting high in the water with a good snug vest.
I am like you, I could never figure the one foot thing out. I have always started with two feet in (since 75 Tique/Larry helped me up). I think the key for me is to stay "set" with hands, arms, body, legs tucked and firm until on plane, letting the boat pull you instead of trying to pull yourself up or pull the boat back. Being high in the water may give you some of the advantage having one foot out would in terms of flatter angle to the water. Having said all that, after changing the prop back from OJ to ACME after repairing the ACME, I missed 3 or 4 times this past Sunday, and I would swear it was my wife ripping me out of the water harder than she realized... |
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89 SN
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Todd - Just before you get your vest on, pull a spark plug wire. If she still takes off too fast, pull another from the other bank.
JK! Tell her you want to save on gas so you take her out to dinner more often. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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This makes me smile..... this is like telling you how to ride a bike via the internet. You gotta do it with someone who can teach you while watching your arms leave your body....
It might be you, It might be your wife, it's probably all of the above. Ski WITH someone else who knows how to do it.... It's like sex - you can read about it, or try it alone, but it's much better if you do it with someone who knows what they are doing! |
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Air206
Grand Poobah Joined: September-28-2008 Location: Roanoke, VA Status: Offline Points: 3000 |
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When are you coming up to SML? We'll work on it together then... Skiing, that is!
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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We'll be up for certain last week in June, and the next trip IDK yet. But we won't have our boat most likely because I just don't think my '07 Crapvrolet will make it and I'm not fixing it again. Hopefully it dies soon so I'll have a new Tacoma to take, otherwise we'll be renting a boat which is always cheaper.
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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Don't worry, my vest is good and snug. That's part of the reason I decided to ski more, I'm too young to start packing these pounds on. |
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bhectus
Platinum Member Joined: July-04-2010 Location: Gator Country! Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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LOL! I feel ya. I gained about 15lbs in the off season and I literally couldn't breathe for the first 60 seconds in the water the other day my vest was so tight.
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'02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold
'87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
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Florida Inboards
Senior Member Joined: December-27-2012 Location: Panama City, Fl Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Go Take a lesson at a ski school. you will never regret doing so, take your driver with you spend the day and when you go back on your own to the water you will be far closer to your goal then you would think.
Plenty of great ski schools around the O-town area. |
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Money Talks! BS Walks! and loose change rides the bus!!!
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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I have a short session Saturday. I've been looking for a school bc I'm sure I'm full of bad habits that I'm unaware of. Unfortunately my wife can't go with me. I hope I can ride and watch other skiers afterwards.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Oh yeah, both palms down. You don't need the baseball grip until you're swerving. It only increases your tendency to pull the handle into your body anyway.
Hard to say what angle I like my ski at. Not perpendicular and not parallel, whatever's comfortable? 45-60 (90 being up and down, 0 being flat under you like you're already skiing). |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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Good tips, a very observant driver makes all the difference when you are trying to learn or not. Each person is completely different in the learning curve. I am not a professional but I have taught a ton of non athletic people to slalom on skis they probably shouldn't have been learning on. Listen to all the pointers the guys are telling you. Poor form will make your life horrible and a driver not paying attention will worsen the effects. Once you master the form properly you should be able to get up behind any type of pull as long as you're strong enough.
My family has always preferred the Hammmmaaa down approach ha. Teaching new skiers is completely different. Like HW said leaning back is bad. You should fold your body out at even rates (ie knees, waist, arms, etc.) as you stand up when getting on top of the water. Personally, I pull my knees in as far as I can and tuck the tail of the ski up as close to my butt as possible to create a ramping effect of the ski. You don't want to hold the ski perpendicular to the water because then you are just pushing it and not climbing it like a hill. The difference between getting up and not could be in the driver giving you a little more throttle when you are standing up or a little less pending the skier until you have it completely mastered. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Have your driver drag you at idle. You should be able to stay in form ready to go at any second. Once you calm down and aren't tipping and flopping around have her roll it up! I like that stop light approach.
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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I pin my knees against my elbows so that the rope pulls your entire body as one piece instead of just my arms and upper body. I only do this to hold my orientation while still in the water. Ie. at idle like HW said.
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desertskier
Platinum Member Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1115 |
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Here's the good news. Because your wife is probably giving you a different pull everytime you will eventually be able to get up everytime with any driver behind any boat. While my wife was learning to drive, and I was learning to ski, she pulled me fast, slow, sideways, hesitated in mid pull and plenty of other variations. Through all that I learned to try and keep watching the back of the boat during the pull (this keeps your head up and body position slightly back) and I start slowly pushing with both legs as soon as I feel motion. If you wait to start pushing the boat will pull you over the front. It's not like an I/O. You don't have to wait for the boat to get going. Once I got used to it I prefer the hammer. It feels like the ski gets a little air as you launch out of the water. I skied behind a Mastercraft once and told the owner to hammer it he said no one could hang on to a full throttle pull (it was one of the Sammy Duvall 190's with the vette motor). You should have seen the look on his face when I stood right up. Good Luck and be patient. The guys I know that have criticized their wife's driving don't go to the lake anymore.
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dwouncmd
Gold Member Joined: July-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 919 |
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That is how I usually do it, I was never sure if this was something other people do. |
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89 SN
<a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=6567&sort=&pagenum=1" rel="nofollow">7 |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Your hair is still dry, eyes open and breathing normally, not burying your head under water!
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Tom351
Groupie Joined: August-23-2010 Location: Chapel Hill, NC Status: Offline Points: 98 |
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Driver form is important as well- make sure that she is resting her arm on the gunwale and only moving thumb/wrist to apply throttle.. Many beginners move their entire arm (pushing from elbow or shoulder) and this makes throttle movement MUCH less precise. One analogy is a computer mouse..try clicking around on your PC by moving elbow or shoulder compared to wrist and thumb movements.
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