1955 CC Hurricane Restoration |
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phatsat67 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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Maybe I will have him machine my future Mopar marine engine haha. Bruce, Mark's 454 had a front crank seal leak. I found out it had way too stiff of a PCV valve in it. Replaced with ford PCV boom leak solved. Unless it's a drag track motor it really needs a PCV for everything to be happy. |
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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I think I have it covered Tim but if not I'll just fashion a new breather tube so it reaches up to the new carb and eliminate the pcv again. The new intake allows for it but the real question is whether the breather down at the transmission is adequate. It does vent the crankcase so in theory it should work. I don't want to put breathers on the valve covers since they are somewhat rare being Marine versions and notched for the adjustable rockers, they're hard to find. |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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I'd never tap into those valve covers!
Will the flame arrestor draw be strong enough? |
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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No I won't mess with the valve covers Bruce. here's how the breather works with the stock carbs. ![]() Tim, I circled the vent on the transmission, this is how it's currently vented. Do you see a problem with this when I add the PCV ? The transmission is open to the engine oil pan sump and they share oil. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Breathers can be plumbed to the flame arrestor, Bruce, Pcv's need to be plumbed to a vacuum source. The basic theory is that the Pcv side pulls air out of the engine, the air enters in through the breather. The Pcv needs to be sized properly so that it's functional over the needed rpm range (vacuum drops as rpms increase). Breathers can also be vented to open air (usually either baffled or filtered or both) as opposed to going to the flame arrestor, but if the engine generates a lot of crankcase pressure, they can mist oil under certain conditions and make a mess.
Some guys on high perf boats run 2 breathers (no Pcv). Drawing a vaccuum on the crank case is best for performance but Pcv systems are not the norm in high perf applications either- too many issues with ingesting the oil back down the intake, which can muck up a carb if it comes through a breather or the engines a/f ratio if it comes through a Pcv. The extreme end of the spectrum involves vaccuum pumps and puke tanks. All this is neither here nor there for the Hurricane, other than to note that breather/Pcv systems are a little more complex than meets the eye! |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Alan, my understanding is that you can run a Pcv so long as you have a corresponding breather. I don't know if that breather down on the tranny is sufficient- do you think it would vent crankcase pressure from the engine? Most breathers are on vc's or the intake valley- so pretty high up.
If the 2 breather system was working well, and the engine wasn't pushing oil out of them before, I'd be inclined to duplicate the set up on the new intake. Anything you can do to baffle or filter it would be good. I'm probably overthinking this considerably for your application since it's nice and tight and relatively low compression and rpm, but we've had some oil control/breather issues we're still working through. Definitely worth putting a little bit of thought into it before drilling holes! |
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phatsat67 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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I agree with Tim, you have some time to think it through so check out similar setups from the factory etc and see what might work best.
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Don't forget any mods need to be reversible!
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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The crankcase is open to the transmision so I don't see why it wouldn't.
The trans breather does have a screen. The original breather tube system can easily be replicated, I would just need to fashion a new breather tube up to the flame arrestor so if the pcv gives me trouble it's not a big deal to go back with the original system. That is somewhat dependant on the type of arrestor I'll end up using. I'm currently searching for something like this flat double sided one that came on Chris Craft 327 motors if anyone has a line on one let me know. ![]()
I have no oil control or breather issues currently so not changing the system is a valid point. I'll call the Hemi guys again and get a little more input from them. To Pete's comment there are still no mods that couldn't be undone. |
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phatsat67 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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It's not the original engine anyways ;).
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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The 331 was an optional engine for the Hurricane. Not being the actual (still being investigated) original engine is only a 1 point deduction per the ACBS rules for a judged boat. |
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phatsat67 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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You mean the PBOJS?
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peter1234 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: February-03-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2756 |
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for anyone putting a pcv valve to replace natural vented engines dont forget that the pcv valve should have a baffle below it. Alan the round arrester if that is what you are leaning towards looks a lot like a mercruiser style. if that is what you are looking at using the merc base generally has two breather tubes under it .
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former skylark owner now a formula but I cant let this place go
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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Yes there is a baffle on the intake valley pan where the pcv valve would go. I definately don't want an arrestor that looks like a mercruiser that's why I'm looking for that flat double sided unit. Here's a similar motor to mine and this is NOT what I'm looking at doing but is an example of rerouting the breather. ![]() Here is the same motor after a rebuild at a respected Race shop. Notice they have incorporated the PCV and the same intake manifold I've purchased. I don't see any other venting but the one down in the transmission. I've talked to the guy that owns the Vintage Race Boat shop and did the restoration on this boat and he said the motor had no issues plumbed like this. ![]() I don't like the Holley, the big round flame arrestor, the braided hoses or the Edelbrock manifolds but according to the builder the boat runs very nice. Has more of a Hot Rod look to it than I'd like in the Hurricane. I plan to paint most of the new parts engine color. |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Those sloping arrestors have the lowest profile you'll find.
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DrCC ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
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Here's another option, but probably harder to find than the split style.
I'll PM you a couple phone #'s that might have some old arrestors. |
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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mmmm a purple 354 dual quad 275 hp, nice. Yes Al those flats would work fine too. thx |
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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Making some minor headway, finally got the intermediate distributor shaft out. In order to use the new marine electronic dizzy you need to remove the intermediate shaft then swap the gear over to a new shorter aftermarket shaft. That will allow me to use any small block Chrysler distributor. Problem was you have to turn the motor over backwards to walk the gear and shaft out.
Not so easy with a flywheel forward motor because there's no harmonic balancer bolt to get a socket on. What I ended up doing is getting a strap wrench on the shaft coupling, removed the spark plugs and since its a manual transmission I locked it into forward gear and slowly turned the motor over backwards to get the shaft out. Quite a pain in the rear but It finally worked. So now the directions say to simple remove the gear from the old shaft and press on to the new! Well that ain't happening at home here with minimal tools so I'll drop the pieces off at the machine shop and have them do it. The pin going through the gear will not budge and I don't want to break this cast gear so looks like I'll be buying another case of beer for the machine shop. They'll probably have it done in 10 minutes and I've already fussed with it for a couple of hours. |
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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![]() old on the left, new shorter shaft on the right. ![]() ![]() old and new distributor. Original parts for these engines are pretty hard to find but thankfully there really is an amazing aftermarket supply of performance parts for these old Hemi engines. |
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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So the Hurricane got splashed a few weekends ago to test the new engine mods.
First off, this was the best outing we've ever had in this boat so we're getting real close to getting it dialed in. The winter mods include and new Electronic ignition Billet distributor, Aluminum 4 barrel intake and a new Edelbrock carb. The boat started first try, idled very nicely down to comfortable 600(the old carbs were all over the place at idle) and ran flawlessly. With the electric choke and the new ignition the boat cranks for a second and fires, very nice so we set the timing and off we went. Had to relocate the coil and fab a new mounting bracket for it. ![]() 1 had to fab a new throttle cable bracket. 2. Made a new steel fuel line 3. added a PCV 4. Fabbed up a new bracket to mount the factory thermostat housing. ![]() 1. relocated therm housing 2. rerouted water path out of the engine. Formerly, water was routed out of the heads into the intake manifold, under the carbs and exiting through the therm housing that was attached directly to the intake. The new routing has water exiting the heads, to a brass T and then to the remote therm housing. I had to make a block off plate for the bottom of the housing and then thread it to receive the pipe nipple the hose attached to. ![]() ![]() So end result is the boat runs great, has much better throttle response, starts instantly and ultimately should be more reliable. Performance wise I picked up 3 mph so the boat is now running 45MPH. That is an awesome feeling in a 60 year old boat, I'm impressed with how flat and steady the hull runs too. Yes it still turns horribly but for flat out cruising it's a blast. Prop was a 13x14 so next trip will get the 13x13 which should get us pretty close and deliver even more throttle response as the 13x14 is still a bit much to turn. It took a little distance on a speed run for the secondaries to open fully and I suspect that is because we're still over propped. |
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phatsat67 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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That looks awesome Alan! What type of WOT rpm is it seeing? If the prop doesn't help with the secondaries you will probably have to pull the counter weights off the air door and lighten them slightly.
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67nautique312 ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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Nice Fab work there Alan!! glad she is running better and more dependable!!
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1963 Classic (handed down to my daughter)
67 Riviera 68 barracuda 1971 Ski Nautique Promo 86 Silver Nautique 1995 Ski Nautique |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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Looks great, Alan. Why did you run your PVC into the intake rather than the carb? Could that cause a lean condition in that cylinder?
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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3800 Zach, the 13x13 should get it closer to optimal. |
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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The marine edelbrock does not have a PCV vacuum port, that and every other PCV conversion on this motor plumbs it into the intake. According to the guys at hemihotheads that's what the intake port is there for. I guess it could run lean but that question has come up over the years on the forums before with other motors and I don't recall it ever being a problem for anyone. Plug check will tell. |
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62 wood ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: February-19-2005 Location: NW IL Status: Offline Points: 4527 |
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NICE work!!! Hard to tell its modified!!!
![]() Now you need to buff the top of the arrestor so it matches the valve covers! |
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Riley ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7952 |
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I don't know why they don't put a port on those marine carbs. The automotive carbs come with one. They can be drilled on either side, but it seems they just ought to put the port in. I was just curious. The engine looks great! Let me know if you want to try that 12x16.
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81nautique ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5777 |
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Makes sense to me Bruce. If I see a problem from plug checks I'll drill it out. thx |
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Chevy350 ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June-24-2013 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 721 |
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The more I see that boats engine, the more I drool. Beautiful boat Alan!
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1972 Mustang
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phatsat67 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6149 |
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Alan, what do the hemi guys tell you? About 4200 WOT ?
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