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1955 CC Hurricane Restoration

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 11:02am
Originally posted by 81nautique 81nautique wrote:

Originally posted by phatsat67 phatsat67 wrote:

Niceeeeeee


Zach, You would love this machine shop. The owner is a true Mopar guy. When I told him the intake was for a first gen hemi it started a one hour conversation and I think it would have gone on longer if didn't need to get back to work. He's done a ton of marine builds to, this is the same guy that did the machine work on the motor for the 81.


Maybe I will have him machine my future Mopar marine engine haha.

Bruce, Mark's 454 had a front crank seal leak. I found out it had way too stiff of a PCV valve in it. Replaced with ford PCV boom leak solved. Unless it's a drag track motor it really needs a PCV for everything to be happy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 11:02am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Alan, looking good!

I've had to learn a bit about crankcase venting theory with our bfn- i imagine you have it covered. I'd be a little hesitant to change the set up if what you had before was working well.


I think I have it covered Tim but if not I'll just fashion a new breather tube so it reaches up to the new carb and eliminate the pcv again. The new intake allows for it but the real question is whether the breather down at the transmission is adequate. It does vent the crankcase so in theory it should work. I don't want to put breathers on the valve covers since they are somewhat rare being Marine versions and notched for the adjustable rockers, they're hard to find.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 11:05am
I'd never tap into those valve covers!

Will the flame arrestor draw be strong enough?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 11:55am
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

I'd never tap into those valve covers!

Will the flame arrestor draw be strong enough?


No I won't mess with the valve covers Bruce.

here's how the breather works with the stock carbs.


Tim, I circled the vent on the transmission, this is how it's currently vented. Do you see a problem with this when I add the PCV ? The transmission is open to the engine oil pan sump and they share oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 11:58am
Breathers can be plumbed to the flame arrestor, Bruce, Pcv's need to be plumbed to a vacuum source. The basic theory is that the Pcv side pulls air out of the engine, the air enters in through the breather. The Pcv needs to be sized properly so that it's functional over the needed rpm range (vacuum drops as rpms increase). Breathers can also be vented to open air (usually either baffled or filtered or both) as opposed to going to the flame arrestor, but if the engine generates a lot of crankcase pressure, they can mist oil under certain conditions and make a mess.

Some guys on high perf boats run 2 breathers (no Pcv). Drawing a vaccuum on the crank case is best for performance but Pcv systems are not the norm in high perf applications either- too many issues with ingesting the oil back down the intake, which can muck up a carb if it comes through a breather or the engines a/f ratio if it comes through a Pcv. The extreme end of the spectrum involves vaccuum pumps and puke tanks.

All this is neither here nor there for the Hurricane, other than to note that breather/Pcv systems are a little more complex than meets the eye!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 12:04pm
Alan, my understanding is that you can run a Pcv so long as you have a corresponding breather. I don't know if that breather down on the tranny is sufficient- do you think it would vent crankcase pressure from the engine? Most breathers are on vc's or the intake valley- so pretty high up.

If the 2 breather system was working well, and the engine wasn't pushing oil out of them before, I'd be inclined to duplicate the set up on the new intake. Anything you can do to baffle or filter it would be good.

I'm probably overthinking this considerably for your application since it's nice and tight and relatively low compression and rpm, but we've had some oil control/breather issues we're still working through. Definitely worth putting a little bit of thought into it before drilling holes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 12:08pm
I agree with Tim, you have some time to think it through so check out similar setups from the factory etc and see what might work best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 12:10pm
Don't forget any mods need to be reversible!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Alan, my understanding is that you can run a Pcv so long as you have a corresponding breather. I don't know if that breather down on the tranny is sufficient- do you think it would vent crankcase pressure from the engine? Most breathers are on vc's or the intake valley- so pretty high up.


The crankcase is open to the transmision so I don't see why it wouldn't.

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:



If the 2 breather system was working well, and the engine wasn't pushing oil out of them before, I'd be inclined to duplicate the set up on the new intake. Anything you can do to baffle or filter it would be good.



The trans breather does have a screen.   The original breather tube system can easily be replicated, I would just need to fashion a new breather tube up to the flame arrestor so if the pcv gives me trouble it's not a big deal to go back with the original system. That is somewhat dependant on the type of arrestor I'll end up using. I'm currently searching for something like this flat double sided one that came on Chris Craft 327 motors if anyone has a line on one let me know.



Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:



I'm probably overthinking this considerably for your application since it's nice and tight and relatively low compression and rpm, but we've had some oil control/breather issues we're still working through. Definitely worth putting a little bit of thought into it before drilling holes!


I have no oil control or breather issues currently so not changing the system is a valid point. I'll call the Hemi guys again and get a little more input from them.

To Pete's comment there are still no mods that couldn't be undone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 12:45pm
It's not the original engine anyways ;).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by phatsat67 phatsat67 wrote:

It's not the original engine anyways ;).

The 331 was an optional engine for the Hurricane. Not being the actual (still being investigated) original engine is only a 1 point deduction per the ACBS rules for a judged boat.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 1:55pm
You mean the PBOJS?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter1234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 3:26pm
for anyone putting a pcv valve to replace natural vented engines dont forget that the pcv valve should have a baffle below it. Alan the round arrester if that is what you are leaning towards looks a lot like a mercruiser style. if that is what you are looking at using the merc base generally has two breather tubes under it .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by peter1234 peter1234 wrote:

for anyone putting a pcv valve to replace natural vented engines dont forget that the pcv valve should have a baffle below it. Alan the round arrester if that is what you are leaning towards looks a lot like a mercruiser style. if that is what you are looking at using the merc base generally has two breather tubes under it .


Yes there is a baffle on the intake valley pan where the pcv valve would go.

I definately don't want an arrestor that looks like a mercruiser that's why I'm looking for that flat double sided unit.

Here's a similar motor to mine and this is NOT what I'm looking at doing but is an example of rerouting the breather.


Here is the same motor after a rebuild at a respected Race shop. Notice they have incorporated the PCV and the same intake manifold I've purchased. I don't see any other venting but the one down in the transmission. I've talked to the guy that owns the Vintage Race Boat shop and did the restoration on this boat and he said the motor had no issues plumbed like this.


I don't like the Holley, the big round flame arrestor, the braided hoses or the Edelbrock manifolds but according to the builder the boat runs very nice. Has more of a Hot Rod look to it than I'd like in the Hurricane. I plan to paint most of the new parts engine color.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 4:18pm
Those sloping arrestors have the lowest profile you'll find.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrCC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 6:36pm
Here's another option, but probably harder to find than the split style.



I'll PM you a couple phone #'s that might have some old arrestors.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2014 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by DrCC DrCC wrote:

Here's another option, but probably harder to find than the split style.



I'll PM you a couple phone #'s that might have some old arrestors.





mmmm a purple 354 dual quad 275 hp, nice.

Yes Al those flats would work fine too. thx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2014 at 4:41pm
Making some minor headway, finally got the intermediate distributor shaft out. In order to use the new marine electronic dizzy you need to remove the intermediate shaft then swap the gear over to a new shorter aftermarket shaft. That will allow me to use any small block Chrysler distributor.   Problem was you have to turn the motor over backwards to walk the gear and shaft out.


Not so easy with a flywheel forward motor because there's no harmonic balancer bolt to get a socket on. What I ended up doing is getting a strap wrench on the shaft coupling, removed the spark plugs and since its a manual transmission I locked it into forward gear and slowly turned the motor over backwards to get the shaft out. Quite a pain in the rear but It finally worked.

So now the directions say to simple remove the gear from the old shaft and press on to the new!   Well that ain't happening at home here with minimal tools so I'll drop the pieces off at the machine shop and have them do it.   The pin going through the gear will not budge and I don't want to break this cast gear so looks like I'll be buying another case of beer for the machine shop. They'll probably have it done in 10 minutes and I've already fussed with it for a couple of hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2014 at 10:23am

old on the left, new shorter shaft on the right.



old and new distributor.

Original parts for these engines are pretty hard to find but thankfully there really is an amazing aftermarket supply of performance parts for these old Hemi engines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 11:52am
So the Hurricane got splashed a few weekends ago to test the new engine mods.

First off, this was the best outing we've ever had in this boat so we're getting real close to getting it dialed in. The winter mods include and new Electronic ignition Billet distributor, Aluminum 4 barrel intake and a new Edelbrock carb. The boat started first try, idled very nicely down to comfortable 600(the old carbs were all over the place at idle) and ran flawlessly.

With the electric choke and the new ignition the boat cranks for a second and fires, very nice so we set the timing and off we went.

Had to relocate the coil and fab a new mounting bracket for it.


1 had to fab a new throttle cable bracket.
2. Made a new steel fuel line
3. added a PCV
4. Fabbed up a new bracket to mount the factory thermostat housing.


1. relocated therm housing
2. rerouted water path out of the engine. Formerly, water was routed out of the heads into the intake manifold, under the carbs and exiting through the therm housing that was attached directly to the intake. The new routing has water exiting the heads, to a brass T and then to the remote therm housing. I had to make a block off plate for the bottom of the housing and then thread it to receive the pipe nipple the hose attached to.




So end result is the boat runs great, has much better throttle response, starts instantly and ultimately should be more reliable.

Performance wise I picked up 3 mph so the boat is now running 45MPH. That is an awesome feeling in a 60 year old boat, I'm impressed with how flat and steady the hull runs too. Yes it still turns horribly but for flat out cruising it's a blast.

Prop was a 13x14 so next trip will get the 13x13 which should get us pretty close and deliver even more throttle response as the 13x14 is still a bit much to turn. It took a little distance on a speed run for the secondaries to open fully and I suspect that is because we're still over propped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 12:04pm
That looks awesome Alan! What type of WOT rpm is it seeing? If the prop doesn't help with the secondaries you will probably have to pull the counter weights off the air door and lighten them slightly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67nautique312 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 12:08pm
Nice Fab work there Alan!! glad she is running better and more dependable!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 12:11pm
Looks great, Alan. Why did you run your PVC into the intake rather than the carb? Could that cause a lean condition in that cylinder?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by phatsat67 phatsat67 wrote:

That looks awesome Alan! What type of WOT rpm is it seeing? If the prop doesn't help with the secondaries you will probably have to pull the counter weights off the air door and lighten them slightly.


3800 Zach, the 13x13 should get it closer to optimal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

Looks great, Alan. Why did you run your PVC into the intake rather than the carb? Could that cause a lean condition in that cylinder?


The marine edelbrock does not have a PCV vacuum port, that and every other PCV conversion on this motor plumbs it into the intake. According to the guys at hemihotheads that's what the intake port is there for. I guess it could run lean but that question has come up over the years on the forums before with other motors and I don't recall it ever being a problem for anyone. Plug check will tell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 62 wood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 12:26pm
NICE work!!! Hard to tell its modified!!!

Now you need to buff the top of the arrestor so it matches the valve covers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Riley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 12:31pm
I don't know why they don't put a port on those marine carbs. The automotive carbs come with one. They can be drilled on either side, but it seems they just ought to put the port in. I was just curious. The engine looks great! Let me know if you want to try that 12x16.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 81nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by Riley Riley wrote:

I don't know why they don't put a port on those marine carbs. The automotive carbs come with one. They can be drilled on either side, but it seems they just ought to put the port in. .


Makes sense to me Bruce. If I see a problem from plug checks I'll drill it out. thx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chevy350 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 1:03pm
The more I see that boats engine, the more I drool. Beautiful boat Alan!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-21-2015 at 2:33pm
Alan, what do the hemi guys tell you? About 4200 WOT ?
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