'71 Mustang Followed Me Home |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Greg,
Looking at your picture of the alternator belt and then Johns, it sure looks like your belt is riding very low in the crank sheave. Check it out as the belt may be just worn. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I used the same wires on both heads John. When I get home I'll look in the parts book and see what if anything it shows.
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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Greg's belt is also riding in the front position. There must be a difference in the sheave to allow it to run in alignment on the front position. Mine run on the rear position. It doesn't look like there is any spacer between the alternator and the block off plate so something's different.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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reidp
Platinum Member Joined: December-06-2003 Location: Mooresville, NC Status: Offline Points: 1804 |
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Just as a follow up to this and Gary's post about declining comp ratios similar to the auto industry, there was definitely somewhat of a parallel, but HM was an anomaly in the marine industry for just a 1/2 dozen years there at there onset. They were the only marine engine company at the time using the auto maker's higher compression. i.e., premium fuel long blocks, mainly in the 4bbl versions. (For those of old enough to remember or to have gone back and read up, most all 4bbl auto engines up thru at least 1970, Ford 1971, were premium fuel engines, with 9.5 to 11.+ compression from the factories.) For obvious reasons almost all marine engine companies typically used the lower compression, lower HP versions of the auto long blocks. I guess maybe as a result of their racing heritage HM decided to market those higher compression/higher HP engine to their customers. Some history: HM 289-4V 225HP (10.0:1 cr) Interceptor 289-4V 210HP (cr somewhere around 8.5-9:1) 1968?-70 HM 302-4V Original 235HP engine (10.5 cr listed on eng tag) no circ pump Interceptor 302-4V 210 HP (same typ lower cr) 1971-72 HM 302-4V 235HP (9.5 cr on eng tag). This coincided with advent of this 351 head/cam "marine pkg" from Ford to marine eng builders for the 302 which resulted in the new and sometimes confusing 351 firing order for 302- 4V engines. 1971-On 302-4V engines from everyone else (Crusader, Waukesha, Commander, PCM, Palmer) were rated at anywhere from 215 to 225 HP, and most all from what I've read had the typical 8.5 +/- cr. Only thing I've never figured out here is how HM came up with the higher 9.5 cr than everyone else and if really did still have 235 HP. Previously I'd just rationalized that they dropped the 10.5 comp b/c of the slightly bigger cc 351 head chamber but made up the HP thru better head flow and cam, but unless they, HM, put 351 heads on std flat top 302 4V shortblocks, then they'd have the same compression as everyone else, and thus very similar HP. I've yet to open an orig 71-72 HM 302 to see if it had different pistons from any others. Almost did this past year but Moody Blue's compression tests just looked too good, and she only needed that rear seal after 43 yrs of service. So then, while 1973-on 302s have a ID tag labeling them as a "model" 235, the specs list them as only 215HP and only having 8.5 compression, and which is no longer shown on the engine tag. From that point on they were obviously the same core engines used by all the other makers. '73 also marked the beginning of HM using the standard circ water pump. Much smaller area of curiosity were the HM 351-4V's that were referred to as the model 290. Similarly to the 302s, the 1969-1972 thereabouts 351-4V engines had 10.7:1 compression and 290HP identical to the 1969 auto engines. I'd like one of them:-). After that point the compression fell in line with everyone else's as did the mundane 250HP. Tune in tomorrow as we'll discuss the Palmer-Crusader 302 connection. jk:-) but sorry I've been lagging so much lately. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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Thanks for taking the time to post that information Reid. In the book "Holman Moody, The Legendary Race Team", Howard DeHart of Holman Moody related "Ford would build special "Marine Spec" engines for us, like a 302 with 351 heads for the larger valves". The top H/M marine engine was a Boss 429 that turned out 580HP @ 6,000RPM. My 302s have heads that say "hecho en Mexico. I have read that the blocks from Mexico in this era were preferred because they were stronger due at least in part to the higher nickel content in the castings. I read somewhere that the heads made in Mexico were also preferred but I don't know why. Possibly the chamber size was different? Possibly the 235HP 302s had 351 heads? I don't know. I will check when I get a chance. I think it's time to read my Holman Moody book again but there is very little on HMM in the book.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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NCH20SKIER
Grand Poobah Joined: December-16-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2207 |
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Messed around with the boat some this weekend. Installed new impeller, oil change, plugs / wires and cleaned out the leaves, pulled out the seats and Astro turf to find some incredibly brittle vinyl underneath.
Hope to install a temp fuel line and see if I can get this jewel to fire up next week. [/IMG] [/IMG] [/IMG] From the back of the seats - guess they are the originals [/IMG] |
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'05 206 Limited
'88 BFN |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Greg,
It looks like you are moving forward on the project. Keep us informed and the pictures coming. Are you thinking about keeping it original and using the vinyl wall covering on the sole? Of course, that's my recommendation! |
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NCH20SKIER
Grand Poobah Joined: December-16-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2207 |
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Pete,
Going to wait and she what happens next week when it's time to see if it runs but I am thinking it will be a fun boat to have at the dock If it stays with me the plan would be to keep it "as it was" as much as possible. So far the only thing I have noticed that may need to be added would be thee rope guard on the stern as the lifting eye looks like it could be caught by a ski rope (may be how the lifting eye was bent - but I wouldn't think so). |
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'05 206 Limited
'88 BFN |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Greg, does the boat have a pylon? The only ones I've seen without rope clearance bars are the ones that have ladders, or no pylon. If it has a pylon, look for evidence of where the clearance bar mounted... The 2nd gen stangs are usually a little fancier and had bars that wrapped the whole stern.
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NCH20SKIER
Grand Poobah Joined: December-16-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2207 |
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Tim,
Yes to the pylon, when the PO stepped and went through the floor the took it out. Currently it resides in my basement. No visible signs of the rope guard on the deck but I will look closer later this week. Perhaps under the dirt and grime there is some lingering evidence of what may have been. The boat will be introduced to some soap and water this week as well |
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'05 206 Limited
'88 BFN |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Post a pic of the pylon. If that square flange goes with it and it's 2.5" diameter then it was added later (they were smaller diameter before '75-76).
It would be pretty easy to add the older style clearance bar- just need to bend some stock into shape and screw it down. |
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NCH20SKIER
Grand Poobah Joined: December-16-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2207 |
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Tim
It is a 2-1/2" pylon. If you look at the pic above the seat back pic above you can see the female receiver in the bilge. Perhaps the soap and water need to make it to the bilge as well before all the fun begins |
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'05 206 Limited
'88 BFN |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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All boats got the female cup in the hull regardless of being optioned with a pylon from the factory or dealer. Sounds like yours was added sometime later (after 75), hence no clearance bar. Maybe they decided to add one after bending the lifting ring!
I would guess that someone has posted the size stock needed to make one... Shouldn't be too bad of a job. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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I hope this is a help.This is from my 70 Mustang. The 69SS had a huge concoction made from deck rail and fittings that are available today, but it was fugly imo.Maybe someone will recognize the stock this is made from. The bends on the bottom are at about an 85* angle probably to give it a little more resistance to bending at the deck.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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John,
Yours is a hollow back SS half oval but I've seen them made in a solid back too which is stronger. Half round SS - no holes |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Can't say I've ever seen a boat with a solid back half round clearance bar. Many '71+ boats have tubular clearance bars, that's what I have on my Skier. I'd probably stick with what John posted though.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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The hollow back is available too but the problem is finding it without pre drilled holes every 6". Yes on the standard railing and fittings. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Not sure what you mean by "standard rail and fittings", Pete... That's not what I was referring to.
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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This was on the 69SS. Standard deck fittings. Very effective, but I don't like it.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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That flimsy hollow back half oval thing shaved my toe on JDD's mustang.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Ah the good old days- only the strongest survived
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Mojo
Grand Poobah Joined: December-06-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3106 |
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Yeah that's a stock clearance bar from about 74-77' Had one on my Tique and nautique from that time period. Yes, they were big, ugly and hard to jump over... |
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05' SV211 TE
73' Martinique had:96' SNOB had:76' Nautique had 77 Tique |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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We've got the hollow one our 66 Mustang and have a solid one like Pete's talking about that came with the newer style 68 pylon off of one of 62 Wood's junkers. That 74 long tube type is ugly and seems like it would bend and kink pretty easily.
Hollywood, I don't know what you were doing scaling JDD's rope guide, but it'll bite right into gel coat when you're either installing it or removing it, so I imagine it took a nice chunk of meat out of your toe. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I was referring to the system CC used just like John posted. Same as Dave mentioned as well as what's on my Tique. BTW, the "standard rail" is tubing. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Well you quoted me and that's still not what I was talking about! Did my picture not come though?
The later (74-78) clearance bars do look a little funny, at least on an older boat. They're a bit flimsy for sure- that's one thing all of these clearance bars have in common! I remind all guests that they are NOT hand rails, ha. I guess the later bars don't pose as much of a public safety threat though... Reminds me of the metal trimmed motorbox that came down on my ankle, yuck. |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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Were the vents moved to the center in about 69 to allow for a smaller clearance bar? It would be a bad day if someone tried to use my flimsy style for boarding, or even a hand hold at the dock.
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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No picture here, Pete? Shows up fine on my end, but I posted it! We are talking about different clearance bar styles. John, no changes to the clearance bars for '69. The moving of the scoops from the outer corners to the middle sure made that clearance bar more useful though... Those corner scoops were rope catchers! |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Tim,
Yes, I see it now. Sorry I glanced by it thinking it was another picture of the half oval. What was used at the base for deck fittings? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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It's flattened at the ends and screwed down directly, just like the half oval. Probably a little trickier to make at home because of that, which is why I suggested sticking with the half oval anyways... Though Hw may argue that the bar stock is safer!
I'll try to remember to snap a good pic over the holiday break. This one is a little better: |
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