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T_bone19 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: June-20-2015 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 53 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: July-23-2015 at 1:51pm |
Recently purchased a 1999 CC/SN 196 closed bow with THE python engine. From what I’ve read/been told a SN 196 with a Python is rare.
The Issue My boat list/leans to Starboard/right side, you can feel the weight in the boat. Pure guess I would say ~150 +pounds. I had a technician go through the boat rip up the floorboards and check the stringers, water, etc.. Everything a okay so no issue “under the hood”. Explanation Unique to this boat and Python engine. CC put in a counter weight in the boat to counter the effects/power from the Python Engine and LH rotation. I am not an engineer but if they needed a fixed weight on the starboard side pretty sure they would have variety of Driver weights weighing from 150-300pds any given day. Questions Is this true ? If so, can it be removed ? If not true, any other explanation? Appreciate the insights guys |
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quinner ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Congrats on the new boat, and fwiw, it's not a 196, that Model Tag was only used 03'-09', yours is a Ski Nautique.
Pretty much all 99's would have been lefty motors so that is probably not anything to do with it. Hopefully Scott (Scootdogydog) chimes in, he also has a 99' SN w/Python |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Who told you there's a counterweight?
I don't recall a starboard lean. It would be to combat the RH prop though, not the LH motor. Python props weren't any larger in diameter (13-14") than typical ski nautique props of the 90+ era so I'm not buying the explanation at face value. |
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a0128 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-05-2014 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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The 1999 boats were all composite which eliminated the potential for rotted stringers. Did the Pythons have a different transmission that was LH rotation? My 1999 Pro Air is a RH rotation. |
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T_bone19 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: June-20-2015 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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The technician told me the only explaination he could come up with his a counter weight to comebat the power from the engine.
Sorry I could have gotten the RH and Lh pull wrong. I just assumed since the boat pulls to the left in reverse is was a Lh rotation. I am newbie so not sure |
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a0128 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-05-2014 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Mine also pulls to the left in reverse. This is normal operation as when in reverse the prop is rotating left. In forward your prop is rotating to the right. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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All 99 (and the vast majority of all 89+) direct drives have the 1.23 trans, which allows a LH engine to turn a RH prop. Sounds like both of you are a little confused on your rotation conventions.
![]() I wouldn't put a dime of confidence in an inspector's guess about counterweight unless he either 1) could show you the weight or 2) had highly specific correct craft knowledge that eclipses that on this site... Which I wouldn't be holding my breath for! |
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a0128 ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-05-2014 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Well . . it wouldn't be the first time! Engine = LH Prop = RH Got it! |
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T_bone19 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: June-20-2015 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Thanks for all the replies guys,thanks for clearing up the rotation but don't want to lose sight of my original question.
Does anyone know of CC putting weights in the boat equipped with the Python engine ? I knew this would be hard one to solve Any insights ? Thoughts that would cause the list |
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Hollywood ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13512 |
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Almost all ski boats list towards the driver side due to the weight of the helm and instruments. The smaller the boat the more pronounced the lean.
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quinner ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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I doubt they would weight them as your guy might have suggested.
The helm itself could account for a list, dash, gauges, steering wheel, etc. etc. all on the starboard side. Assuming everything else is balanced after that |
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backfoot100 ![]() Platinum Member ![]() Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Is the list at rest or underway?
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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Frankenotter ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August-26-2012 Location: Milwaukee Status: Offline Points: 1072 |
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I don't think there were wights.
There have been a few threads on here where people parted boats out and cut the hulls into little tiny pieces. A big chunk of metal would have been outstanding on one hand, and chainsaw hindering on the other. That being said, I can't remember if any of the hulls originally had a python in them. Tim is usually correct and that sucks. |
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1999 Ski Nautique 196
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bkhallpass ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: March-29-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4723 |
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Does it lean when under power, or only at idle?
Where is the battery on that boat? BKH |
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Livin' the Dream
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scootdogydog ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November-03-2013 Location: Central MA Status: Offline Points: 404 |
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nothing abnormal on mine -- have you ridden in a different correct craft/inboard to see if it's abnormal? the smaller the boat, the bigger difference a person in the driver seat would matter...with nobody in the boat, does it sit level? If not, post a picture.
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T_bone19 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: June-20-2015 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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1.. The list is much more pronounced at Rest, approx. 1 foot lean to it
2. THe battery is on the left under the passenger seat 3. You can feel the weight when standing in the boat and to me you can really feel it in the middle and at the rear/stern of the boat. THe list is abnormal and if scootydog has the same boat then there is my first fact, the list is abnormal Still trying to find a explanation as to why ? Any ideas |
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M3Fan ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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When you look at the motor on the motor mounts, how centered is it? That's what, 1200 pounds sitting in the middle of that boat and the hulls are made by hand. If the engine is off to the right side on the mounts (they allow for a direct sliding left or right adjustment to the motor position) even an inch or so I'd imagine that might cause a list. I've seen motors way off to the left or right adjustments on these boats.
Also, I don't buy the helm causing any list. The passenger/spotter seat and hinge assembly as well as the heavy "cutting board" glovebox cover and glovebox internal fiberglass (looks like another whole mold of fiberglass on that particular glovebox) has to counter out the "helm" weight if any. The dash weighs nothing, really. Every comp boat I've seen in general is level at rest. |
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2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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1' lean, wth? Battery should be in the center of the boat. Better get us some pics.
I agree with Joel- slight lean may be due to engine placement but driver's helm shouldn't be a huge influence. |
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T_bone19 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: June-20-2015 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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It looks centered when you look at it, but i would to measure to get the exact numbers.
This is a possible and logical explanation, is it a lot of work to re-center an engine. Could my cell foam be water logged ? |
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M3Fan ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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You can't really re-center it. That's just how the hull/motor/stringers/log/strut line up on that particular layup. Could the foam be water logged? Hell yes. (I thought you had checked that?) And Tim agrees with me? Mark this point down in history. |
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2000 SN GT40 w/99 Graphics/Gel
2016 SN 200 OB 5.3L DI https://forum.fifteenoff.com |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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What? I thought you had that checked?
I don't know what that means as there are no "floor boards"... Just glass over foam. Did he or did he not dissect the boat and inspect for water weight? |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21141 |
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Oh and agreed- the engine needs to be aligned to the log and strut- not tailor able for any other reason.
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T_bone19 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: June-20-2015 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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I will post some pics on the weekend
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Lakeview ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: January-06-2004 Location: Branchville NJ Status: Offline Points: 247 |
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Have you weighed the boat and trailer??? should solve some of the obvious.
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Lakeview
1992 Barefoot Nautique 1967 Barracuda SS 1967 Chris Craft Cavalier |
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T_bone19 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: June-20-2015 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Just to be clear, before i purchased the boat i brought up the list as an issue. They dealer would have it inspected to ensure they were not selling me a bad boat.
The technician " removed the floor boards and checked the stringers, no issues were found, no water"....and then they provided me with the explanation. After reading the posts, i am no longer taking anything at face value from what the dealer said and start questioning everything for i can personally cross it off my POE list. 1. Engine Alignment 2. Cell foam Water logged - how do i check for that ? The battery is not in the middle in this boat and it is in its proper place. |
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skutsch ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Did he say a FOOT of list??? Like waterline is 6" low on the port side and 6" high on the starboard, or literally seeing the starboard side 12" lower in the water?
Cripes, I can't even weight (for surfing) my Sport to sink one side 12 inches... That's with 800 lbs on one side, so we are talking some SERIOUS water soaked foam! Definitely need pictures of this... |
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T_bone19 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: June-20-2015 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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i will swap your 08 sport Nautique boat for my listing 99 python and you wake surf all day all night
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74Wind ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: August-02-2011 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 2101 |
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Not sure what freeboard is on that model but gotta think a 1 foot list would be like a third of it? Yikes.
Really not trying to sound rude, if I follow correctly, you water tested it and noticed the severe list, and still bought it? Caveat Emptor I'm sure, but if it's a reputable dealer perhaps you might explore some possible recourse if it's a real recent purchase. |
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1974 Southwind 18
1975 Century Mark II |
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T_bone19 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: June-20-2015 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Thanks 74Wind, good advice i could be over clubbing the list but it is certainly noticeable. It is from a very reputable dealer but its a 16 year old boat, so i will assume the risk. They simply checked to make sure they weren't going to sell me a boat that would sink.
its a weird one. I honestly don't believe its a water issue, this boat was boathouse kept on a lift, well used, but well taken care of. Something is throwing it off. |
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JoeinNY ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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Basically the took off the back floorboard and looked in the bilge at the stringers. As the are composite they saw nothing amiss. But they didn't inspect the foam - that job would have involved a lot of work and time and would have left the boat with new carpet. Water in the foam is the likely culprit, iirc there are tube on that side that if the boat typically sat around with a full bilge of water would certainly allow someone water to work it's way to the foam. Alternatively the engine would be off because the strut had been bent and they changed the engine position to along the shaft to the resulting strut location.
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