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Running rich or lean?

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CC 79 View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-26-2004 at 6:27pm
Posted a while ago (as guest) about carb problems. Have since changed all leads and the distributor cap, rotor arm and condenser, and gapped it.
When it is first started it fires up with a turn of the key, but after a while it struggles and hesitates when pulling then boarder out of the water. It stutters and stumbles and then clears and goes well again.
I have checked other threads and may change the power valve and or the accelerator pump. Are these easy jobs or not?
The other thing i have noticed is that the spark plugs were brownish on the end, is this a sign of lean mixture? Other thing is are there any adjusting screws for fuel mixture that i should try first???
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79nautique View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2004 at 12:17pm
Look at the carb, check the choke stat and make sure it is working correctly. The top butter fly on the carb should be straght up and down after say 5 min or so and check the accellerator pump and float level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2004 at 12:19pm
The plugs should look a little brown on the tip. It should be a lite chocolate color if it is black or dark brown then you are too rich
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Tim D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2004 at 4:21pm
A good starting point on the adjustment screws is to screw them all the way in and back out one and a half turns. The power valve is on the back side of the part the adjustment screws are in. The accelerator pump has a arm connected to the linkage, should have four screws holding it on the bottom of the carb. It will also have a spring inside. Both of these are very easy to change. It should take about 5 minutes to take these off. Be careful not to over tighten the screws that hold the bowl on, those paper washers can tear. If you have a Holley, there is a sight hole (large head brass screw) on the bowl. If fuel comes out while it's idling, lower the float. My holley has a flat head screw with a jam nut on top of the bowl, where the needle and seat is. To lower the float loosen the jam nut and turn the screw counter clockwise and tighten the jam nut. Clockwise will raise the float. One thing you can do is will you're checking the power valve and the bowl is off, turn the bowl upside down and see if the float hangs horizontal. If the power valve and accelerator pump are bad, I would get a rebuild kit and change the needle and seat also. The whole kit for my holley is about $18, which will have all new gaskets and pieces you don't need.
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CC 79 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CC 79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2004 at 5:19pm
Thanks for the advice. Have checked floats and they are set right, but will now change the power valve and the accelerator pump and see what happens then. If no change i will be back asking for yet more advice, cheers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2004 at 7:39pm
I would check and see if the accel pump is not working before replacing it. Remove the flame arrestor and open the throtle slowly. You sould see gas squirting into both bores if you do then there is nothing to fix or replace if you don't then you have a problem. Is the engine back firing? NO, then leave the power valve alone. If it is back firing then you need to replace the power valve.

Have you checked the timing and dwell? have you check for vaccum leaks? PCV valve? there are several things to check before you start screwing up the carb shooting in the dark trying to fix your problem. With the color of the plugs being light brown odds are the carb is fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CC 79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2004 at 10:06pm
How do i check for vaccum leaks? What is the flame arrestor, ( It may be called something else here in the UK)?
Is there a filter on the fuel pump that i should check?
The only leak i can think of is maybe a slight leak,( discharge of fuel) from the primary throttle shaft, could this be the fault and if so, is it a rebuild that i need.
Thanks for the advice 79nautique, you are a big help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-28-2004 at 3:29am
The spark arrester fits on the top of the carb like an air cleaner. It is made to prevent backfires from setting the boat on fire. It sounds like a fuel pump problem I would change the pump and any filters you see inline between the tank and carberatorThere is a scintered brass disc in many Carbs where the line comes into it.. I had the same problem with my electric fuel pump It would fail intermittently. I rerplaced it and had no more problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-28-2004 at 10:48am
If everything in the carb checks out fine, then check the intake. While the engine is running, spray some carb cleaner down each side of the intake where it meets the heads. If you hear a change in the engine such as revs up, you have an intake leak.
Tim D
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79nautique View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-28-2004 at 12:22pm
CC 79
Have you varified the timing? replacing the points will change the timing. Also converting to electronic ign would help. you can get a conversion kit for around 100 bucks or you can replace the whole distributor like I did. The easiest way to check for vaccum leaks is to use 1 lb bottle of propane and open it slightly. Then slowly move it around the base of the carb, vaccum lines and edges of the intake and listen for the RPM's to increase. Usually you can just check the torq on the bolts to the carb and intake and it will take care of it. You can use carb or brake cleaner but I don't like to use them because it will remove paint and makes a mess. Like I said just put a wrench to all the bolts and check the torque on them.

If you have low fuel pressure i.e. bad fuel pump, it will show up on the top end and not lower end of the rpm range. For instance you are cruising along and everthing is running fine then as you increase in speed it falls on it face and starts to stumble then when you back out of the throtle it clears up.

Also can you explain in minutes

"but after a while it struggles and hesitates when pulling then boarder out of the water. It stutters and stumbles and then clears and goes well again."


Is it while coming out of the hole or is it after you are on plane. Then does it do it all of the time or once in a while. Also do you have a rubber hose or steel line running from the fuel pump to carb?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CC 79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2004 at 8:49am
While coming out of hole it starts to hesitate, and i have a steel line from pump to carb, but i have checked it for cracks and it is ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2004 at 11:51am
If it hesitates every time you are coming out of the hole then I would focus on the accellerator pump on the carb and adjust it so that it squirts gas for the full movement of the throttle. Timing can add to this as well. also make sure the steel fuel line is not laying on the manifold or against the block if it is bend it slightly so that there is a 1/2" gap or 12-15mm since your in the UK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CC 79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2004 at 5:39pm
will try the above 79nautique, am taking her out this weekend, so will try to eliminate faults, and will let you know what happens. Thanks for all the good advice mate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SS 201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2004 at 6:23pm
As time goes by and hours are put on the engine the timing chain becomes slack and puts the engine retarded. Forget what the inital timing is turn engine to 2500 -3000 Rpm and adjust timing to at least 32-34 Degrees.
To put a marine grade rubber fuel line from pump to carb will eliminate a lot of fuel problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CC 79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2004 at 6:37pm
SS 201, i don't understand how to time the engine to 32-34 degrees, give me a run through in simple terms if you can please
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On this side of the pond pressurized fuel in a rubber hose is not USCG kosher.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SS 201 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-29-2004 at 9:08pm
Too bad, cures vapor lock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GottaSki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2004 at 9:45am
Sometimes just wraping the steel line with hose that you split with a utility knife gets the same effect, but looks like azz.

Even good dial-in timing lights tend not to exceed 25 or 30 degrees, so setting full advance can be tricky.

Take the circumference of the damper and divide by 360, take that number and multiply by 34, and put a secondary mark on the damper from TDC that should equal 34 degrees. Then see what the advance tops out at.

You should be seeing no drips from the primary or secondary venturies at idle, else the needle and seats are boogered. If that is the case, good bet the idle fuel circuit is clogged also.

Like 79nautique sez, accel pump should squirt for entire motion, and also must squirt immediately off idle, else adjust the plunger.

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79nautique View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 79nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2004 at 1:50pm
to time at the rpm SS201 suggest you can do it by your self by pulling the knob on the morse control to disengage the transmission and giving it gas and watching the tach. now that you are at the 2500-3000 get the timming light out and see where she's at. If your timing light doesn't have advancing adjustment so that you line up the zero mark on the balancer and the pointer and read the amount of advance then you won't be able to time it because the pointer scale will not go up high enough. if it only adjusts to 20 or so then leave it at its max and add the degrees from the pointer scale and you will have the total advance.

And what bill suggests about timing for max advance is very sound advice and would be preffered over the base timing method especially if you have a modified motor like so many of us have. Every engine is different and will want to run at slightly different timing. Now what can get you into trouble is if you have replaced the advance weight springs with too weak of springs so that the advance comes on quicker and then it leaves your base timing to high at lower RPM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Munday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2004 at 2:49pm
I would also try a different coil.coils are lazy and after warm up?could be the problem if carb rebuild has no effect
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CC 79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2004 at 5:48pm
have just got another coil as it happens, so will stick it on and see what happens.
As the problem happens mostly when the boat is weighed ( for boarding ) i have wondered if changing the prop might alleviate strain on then engine. Anybody know if this helps an engine on a loaded boat?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 882001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2004 at 7:58pm
yes it will i just got the 542 amazing http://www.correctcraftfan.com/articles/featured_product.asp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CC 79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2004 at 6:48am
Just a big thanks to all the replies, checked pump, accel pump, filters, timing, and in the end Munday got it right. The coil change did the trick. Have run it fully weighted all weekend and has pulled like a trooper! A lesson to all us newbie boat owners that it pays to check the easy things first, and what we are sure is fuel problem may not be. Thanks all...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote r-mallis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-23-2005 at 1:30pm
i had the same exact problem as you. what is happening is when you shut your motor down when it is hot all of the gas is boiling out of your fuel bowl and into your intake (vapor lock) then when you try to restart it, its hard to start. and when you go to pull up a skier it bogs down because you get air in the accelerator pump circuit and your not getting a full squirt. it eventually works itself out after a few hole shots. so anyways you need to solve your vapor lock problem with what the other guys were saying by running a rubber hose or insulating your steel fuel line
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