AmSkier Construction |
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Posted: October-11-2015 at 1:00pm |
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I know how you guys can be when it comes to your beloved CC’s but you're also interested by other boats construction. Especially at this this time of year when there isn’t a lot to talk about and everybody is putting their babies to bed for the winter...unless you live in the south. Thus the reason for this thread.
As most of you know, in March we had HW and Adam here in FL for Wrecking Crew 2. Kind of a mini CCFan reunion. We went out skiing and had another friend come along so we took both boats (JBears and mine) to have a little more room for everybody.We were skiing the upper chain near WBC and Ben Groen came out with a couple barefoot clients to ask how long we would be. We had pretty much just started our set so we would be a while. He was more than understanding and was willing to go elsewhere but I told Ben that we would move to give them the water. They make a living doing this after all and I was sure that we could find more water on another lake. So John finished up a set in my boat with Adam and our other local friend Rob at the helm. HW and I took Johns boat through a canal to another lake to find another spot. We had the boom and extended pylon on and the canal had a bridge that we had to pass under. The water has been pretty high this year so we took the boom and pylon off before going under the bridge. You can see where this is going, right???? I don't know why but I just had this weird feeling that something was "off". Three experienced boaters (well.....two and a half with Adam), a bridge...high water...social chatter...Adam's impeccable track record with boats...you get the drift? HW and I sat on the other side of the bridge to make sure that the guys took all the “stuff” off my boat before coming through the canal. Anyway, they came up and stop short of the canal and I see someone crawling out on the deck to start removing “stuff”. No problem, right? So HW and I continue on through the canal and wait for them. As I see the nose of my boat coming under the bridge, I see John standing next to the extended pylon holding onto it giving his best impression of “Show us your Captain” while being the chatty Cathy social butterfly that we all know and love so well. Turns out they took the boom off but not the extended pylon. Even at idle speed, both extended pylon cables snapped and pushed the pylon backwards buckling the engine cradle as it pivoted right where it comes through the floor. I couldn't open the cover until I removed the boom clamp and Tachyon SDBM. There isn't a lot of clearance between the pylon and the crank mounted RWP when the pylon is straight. This just added to that aspect. Neither the extended pylon nor the regular pylon was bent. Just the buckled cradle and snapped cables as well as a little scuffing on the extended pylon where it actually hit the bridge after the cables snapped. I didn't expound on this to throw anybody under the bus. I was just going to skip over the details and let it go but I know you guys are like an itchy hemerroid and would never leave that alone without some sort of explanation. I jokingly make fun of it but John felt completely horrible thinking it was totally his fault. S**t happens sometimes and it was just an unfortunate accident with really no one person to fault. By far the most important thing is nobody was hurt. The boat can fixed. It was at least comforting to know that by the time we got home my wife said that she got a call from Swampy at WBC to thank us for the gesture of giving them the water. So now I have to figure out how to fix this thing. I know that the engine cradle has to be removed to repair it. This isn’t a CC. The cradle isn’t lag bolted to the stringers. That would be way too easy. American Skier through-bolts their cradles with 3/8” SS bolts, flat washers and nyloc nuts. The ONLY way to fix this is cutting up the carpet, drilling holes in my floor and digging out the floatation foam to get a wrench on the nuts from the backside of the stringers. I can’t tell you how disconcerting that was for me and I had a really, really hard time justifying cutting up perfectly good carpet and coring holes in the floor. First, a little history to explain my fears. I had replaced the floor, foam and carpet some 16 or 17 years ago. At the time, I didn’t have any idea how to do that. The internet was really still in its infancy. There was some manufacturer and business websites available but no forums like this one to help out. I had to do it the old fashioned way. Phone calls and reading. So I found Rot Doctor and called them. They were wonderful to talk to, extremely helpful and their products turned out to be awesome. Expensive but AWESOME!!!!!! My plan was to not just to replace the floor and foam but to treat it with CPES and then completely seal the floor so it cannot ever leak and soak the foam again. Kinda what I’ve been saying to all those guys out there that insist on composite boats so they don’t have to go through the stringer repair. The way that CC builds their floors I absolutely insist that at some time, the floor will still delaminate and the foam will still get soaked which means that the floor has to be cut out and the foam removed and replaced. You don’t have to replace the stringers (I didn't have to replace my stringers either) but it’s not completely maintenance free like everyone thinks. I went through extra measures to seal the floor so no water could get at the foam. I used Rot Doctor epoxy putty to seal joints in the floor and the edge of the floor to the hull. I used an epoxy bedding compound on top of the stringers before I laid the floor down. After I had completely screwed the floor to the stringers, I removed each of them one at a time and squirted Rot Doctors CPES into the holes and then replaced the screw. Then I put three layers of glass over the top of everything. I swear you could have ten guys the size of Quinner jumping up and down on my floor and it won't hurt it at all. Can you say the same about your CC's? So now that I had to drill holes in my floor was I going to find wet foam and have to plan on redoing the floor and foam all over again????? Thus the extreme reluctance to do this. So, I kept putting it off kinda hoping that it would miraculously fix itself. Of course that didn’t happen. I finally started tearing into it in August (yeah, some six months after it happened). I removed the engine, cut the carpet, cored the floor, chiseled out the foam and removed the bolts. Removing the cradle was a PITA but the engine mounts were bolted on with the through-bolts so I cut a piece of 2x6 lumber and bolted it in place of the tranny mounts and beat the hell out of it with a 3lb. hammer. It came out but it took some doing. As you can see, the foam is completely dry. THANK GOD!!!!! The pics make it look wet but the dark tints on the bottom of the foam are actually the change in color from the foam to the glass layup of the hull and stringers. I decided to refinish the bilge while I had everything apart. Something I probably should have done when I did the floor originally but didn’t know any better at the time. Then again when I rebuilt the engine a few years ago but I had too many other things that snowballed out of control…..like wetsanding and polishing the hull. I removed everything except thru-hull hardware….cooling hoses, exhaust, propshaft, gas tank, fuel lines, wiring harness and the steering/throttle/shift cables. Now I had to get the cradle fixed. I did some checking around and found a local guy named Rob Bemman who had a shop that came highly recommended. That would be the same Rob Bemman who makes Bemman booms, pylons and jump ramps. He did an amazing job repairing the cradle and replaced the extended pylon cables. He straightened out the top piece of aluminum which wasn't bent that bad at all. The bottom piece he removed completely and welded in it's place a piece of 1/2" flat stock that he drilled out for the pylon and also added back in the bracket for the U-bolt that clamps around the pylon. I also asked him to weld the motor mounts to the cradle which AmSkier started doing in '87. I couldn’t be happier with the end result. With the cradle repaired, I got it reinstalled and bolted into place. Then I put the core hole plugs back in the floor and used Rot Doctor epoxy putty once again to seal them up. That's where it sits right now. I just had an outpatient surgery so it'll be a few weeks before I can get back to finish it up but the worst of it is done now. Believe me, it looks a lot worse than it really is. I'll definitely be showing you the rest of the progress as I get it done. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Quite the project Eddie and to think your doing it at the hottest time of the year too. Bilge looks great with the paint and it looks like a heavier plate was added to the cradle also? Heck of a way to find out but I'll bet your happy to see how your previous work has held up. I like how they mounted the steering cable to the strut. Is that an angle or did they weld on to an angle to male a T?
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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No correlation between this and Adam moving half way around the world then
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JPASS
Grand Poobah Joined: June-17-2013 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 2283 |
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At least you finally got to address that bilge. It looks great. |
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'92 Correctcraft Ski Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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And most likely new carpet! Eddie, Yes, there sure are frustrating moments in boating but you need to keep in mind all the pleasure we get from it. Good job. |
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DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2870 |
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Bridges are just as hard as a carwash entrance.
Neighbors 88 BFN did the the carwash, but his factory pylon wound up really bent. Great story. What do you use the suction cup bungees on the back of the seat for? |
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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Nah......I stayed and so did Rob. Interesting to see all this. As you guys know..when Eddie starts something..it is carried all the way thru with the utmost care...he does not do shortcuts... it has been like 10 months since this happened and I cannot tell how bad this still makes me feel. Fortunatly we have still had a boat to foot with. Takes a mighty big friend to look at this and say "its alright..I can fix this". john ps to DrCC: suction cups are for holding ropes. |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I cannot imagine John but at least it was something that did not involve anyone getting hurt. I owe you a call- any good time this week?
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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sure would be nice to talk Gary......
john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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It was. The factory plate was 1/4". The one that he replaced it with was 1/2". Much more stout. After I got it home I was tempted to take it back and have him do the same thing with the top plate too. That was the only thing that ensured that the pylon would be in the exact same spot and be able to slide down through the hole in the floor and both plates of the cradle. I'm sure that he could have gotten those dimensions spot on but I didn't want to chance messing that up either. It's still by far stronger than the factory setup was
That is 3/8" angle stock with one of the flats bolted to the studs of the strut. Then the pivot bracket that clamps on to the steering cable is bolted to this angle stock. I do plan on dressing this up a bit before I'm done and I'll take some close ups of the finished product. Stay tuned.
ROFLMAO....It does sound a little suspect doesn't it???? No, Adam is purely guilty by association. He wasn't driving or doing his best Captain Morgan impersonation at all..
I hang my ropes on those. Works out very nicely. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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NCH20SKIER
Grand Poobah Joined: December-16-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2207 |
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All
Glad that nobody got hurt with this. Eddie - please detail that engine while it is out of the boat, your making us all look bad. |
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'05 206 Limited
'88 BFN |
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uk1979
Platinum Member Joined: June-13-2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1424 |
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Great thread Eddie, good to see you and the boat are on the mend...great info on long term CPES usage.
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Lets have a go
56 Starflite 77 SN 78 SN 80 BFN |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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So what did you do after lunch? Mow the lawn?
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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well.....the engine might look a little rough in the pictures..but it is loud & fast. john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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kytom2
Gold Member Joined: July-25-2007 Location: Maysville Ky Status: Offline Points: 698 |
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All this time I thought Eddies boat was Bear proof.
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Smithfamily
Platinum Member Joined: December-26-2007 Location: Orlando, Fl Status: Offline Points: 1602 |
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Great job! Even better attitude! Can Adam come home now?
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Js
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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nope... probably the last time me & Adam will be allowed in a boat together without supervision. john |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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NCH20SKIER
Grand Poobah Joined: December-16-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2207 |
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I have a paddle I will let you borrow - but I want it back
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'05 206 Limited
'88 BFN |
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juniorwoody
Gold Member Joined: August-09-2011 Location: Oak Hill, Fl Status: Offline Points: 937 |
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Honestly don't let Greg kid you he guards that paddle like a hawk. Don't think it ever gets loaned out.
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The value of money spent on new adventure far exceeds the value of money saved for the future
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LaurelLakeSkier
Senior Member Joined: February-12-2007 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 485 |
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Wow....quite the story! It will certainly have me checking my Skylon-to-bridge clearances more carefully . Looks like a first rate job on the repair - she'll be better than new!
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The world is full of youth—what we need is a fountain of smart!
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IAughtNaut
Grand Poobah Joined: August-22-2010 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 2568 |
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maybe so, but I certainly am not without blame. I was the guy who climbed out on the bow and said, damn, it's hard to unhook the boom with these other cables on this eye. I still feel terrible about that day. The most amazing part was that Eddie looked at it, said, well, it won't sink, guess we're skiing being Johns boat this afternoon. unbelievable. what John said, and has always said about Eddie is a total understatement. Glad to see it coming together, and honestly I'm glad you took a little care with this repair, everything else you've ever done to that boat has been half assed. looks great man, I hope I'm invited back for WC3 to try it out. |
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Seeing as things are pretty slow on here right now, I thought that I would give a little update.
I've got everything pretty much back together. I put the core plugs back in the holes of the floor and used the epoxy putty to get them sealed up. I hit it with a quick sander to level things off and then put a layer of glass over it. I purposely wanted to try and see how well I can get the carpet patched together vs. replacing it. I really didn't want to replace it. These boats have the observer seat molded into the deck and then screwed to the floor. When the average Joe (not our Joe mind you) needs to replace the floor and carpet the lazy way out would be to remove the upholstery and cut the seat back off inline with the bottom of the dash. After the repair then a piano hinge is used to screw it back together. It's an OK alternative and pretty much hidden if done right but is it really right? I think not. The right way to do it is remove the entire deck keeping the observer seat intact, replace the floor/carpet as needed and then put the deck back on which is exactly the way I did it the first time so many years ago. Not hard but certainly time consuming. I wasn't going there this time around. Not when the carpet was in good shape yet so I can put up with a couple of slits in it until it comes time that it truly needs it. At least I would see how the bad it would ultimately turn out. I had to tidy up a few other things. The bilge pump float bracket has been broken for a long time. I think the float was a mercury switch so I just replaced it. I dressed up all the wiring too. I wanted to replace the shaft log hose which required that the plastic stuffing box be removed and repacked. When I removed it I found it was deformed (like an hour glass). The housing has a SS crush washer in it that prevents the housing from collapsing from the hose clamp. Unfortunately, the clamp was never installed over the crush washer so the reason for the deforming. I replaced that too with some fresh GFO packing. Look real close at the right rear tranny mount. Then compare it to the left side mount. You'll see that the left mount is thicker than the right. The factory added 3/8” aluminum flat stock on top of each mount. The left one has two spacers and the right side has only one. I have no idea how or why that happened. When I put the engine back in the left trunnion was aligned in the middle of the adjustment track and the right side had the trunnion pretty much pegged against the rubber bushing. It aligned perfectly fine that way but I wanted to make it right. So I called Rob Bemman again and he hooked me up with a perfectly cut piece of 3/8” flat stock aluminum to make both sides even. No pics of the end result but you get the idea. The MSD marine dizzy cap has been redesigned and is no longer available in the old socket configuration. You can only get it with HEI type male terminals so I had to replace the spark plug terminals on the dizzy end. I made the spark plug wires when I installed the ignition years ago so replacing the terminals was pretty easy. Especially with the engine on an engine stand. I'm still not quite done at this point. I got the engine back in and aligned. All the wiring, hoses and cables were reattached. I also removed, cleaned and lubricated the Morse control. Then I was to the point that all I had to do was get the prop and exhaust put back on and I was pretty much done. I got a new SS prop nut to put on. My old brass Nyloc prop nut was still the original one since I've owned the boat and definitely worn so I wanted to replace it. Not sure why I didn't get another brass one. The end couple of threads on my prop shaft were scarfed up a little bit. I probably scraped it on the floor at some point but that's irrelevant. Being SS being spun on SS, I was thinking I should probably put a little anti-seize on the threads but nooooooooooooooooo, not this dumb ass looking to finish things up and cutting corners. I cleaned the threads up a little bit with a jewelers file and spun on the new nut. I got a few turns and the nut galled and seized up permanently. It doesn't budge!!!!! After I got done kicking myself in the ass numerous times and swearing like a sailor at sea, I came to my senses and looked at the big picture…. My choices are to remove the rudder to get an impact on the nut (which still doesn't guaranty it coming off) or remove the rudder and the shaft (which still doesn't guaranty the nut will come off) or just cut the shaft and replace it with a new one. OK, this officially sucks now!!!! So I take the rudder out which turns out to be a whole new bag of s**t. The rudder never leaked and it turned smooth as silk by hand. I just put a couple shots of grease in it every couple years since I've owned it. I removed the cotter pin, the tiller arm and tiller arm key and expected it to drop right out. No such luck. I got it to drop about an inch and then it seized. I lifted it and hammered it back down on it's own weight again….and again…..and again. It didn't finally release until that last 1/4” of the port and I was into it for at least an hour or more. Evidently, the tiller arm pinch bolt was drilled through the rudder shaft after it was installed in the boat which expanded the shaft enough to make it seize in the port. This is before removal. When I started cleaning up the rudder port, I found out there are two grease seals and an O-Ring in the port that need to be removed and replaced. All three were completely destroyed removing the rudder. I removed the upper most grease seal (and snap ring) and the O-Ring without problems. But then realized that there was another grease seal much lower in the port. There was no way I would get that seal out without either removing the gas tank (again) or removing the rudder port so I pulled the port. The rudder shaft and port were so tight I knew that I would never be able to get them back together. So, with rudder and port in hand, I made another trip back to Rob Bemman. He got everything to fit like it's supposed to. Then a call to Ron Tanis and two seals and an O-Ring were on the way. This is everything that came out. Or rather the pieces of everything that came out. This is the cleaned up port. You can see how scarfed up it got (the smaller diameter part of the port) trying to remove the rudder. Fortunately, the rudder shaft doesn’t actually contact that wall if it’s sized properly. The shaft should be centered with the new seals and O-Ring. The first new seal installed The second new seal. There's still a snap ring that goes into a groove just above this seal. O-Ring groove in the base of the port New O-Ring installed As a side note, Rob Bemman's work has been absolute perfection for whatever I asked him to do. Everything he makes (booms, extended pylons, jumps, trick releases, etc.) are all skier developed and outstanding quality. I'm impressed and would highly recommend giving his products consideration if you're in the market. Then as far as Ron Tanis goes, he and I have had very lengthy discussions at different times over the last several years. As a former AmSkier dealer, employee and owner of the company he's forgotten more about these boats then I'll ever know. He also currently owns the only shop in the country that specializes in AmSkier restorations. He's a pretty knowledgeable guy and I can't thank him enough for his help on numerous occasions. So onto the prop shaft and the reason this whole thing snowballed out of control in the first place. I had the shaft and threads soaking in an Acetone/ATF mix for about four days while I looked for answers on the rudder and rudder port. I don't have access to a torch so I knew I was screwed in that regard. With the impact, I could unscrew the nut maybe a 1/16 turn and then tighten it maybe a 1/8 turn. Then back it off some more and tighten it up while constantly hitting it with more of the ATF mix. It finally came off but not without a fight and really messing up a few threads. As long as I can get the nut all the way up to the prop itself, it'll be on perfectly good threads. I just need to be able to get it past the bad threads first. So I start an online search for a thread chaser and I find this….. It's a two piece unit wrapped with a spring that holds the two halves together. You pull it apart and put it above the damaged threads. Then you take a six point socket and turn it backerds off the shaft. It's pricey compared to standard thread chasers but pretty much guaranty you can't possibly get any cross threading. A cool concept that I haven't seen before. Way cheaper than a new shaft. Then the next problem is finding a big enough six point socket (1 1/2”). Yeah…..it's a big sucker. I acquired the chaser and the socket and slobbered the threads with anti-seize and it cleaned everything off really nice. There are parts of the threads that are missing but a nut spins on real nice with a little anti-seize for good measure. The moral of the story here Boys and Girls is make sure that you clean up damaged threads before you run into problems like I did. Rest assured, I'll also be using a little anti-seize before spinning a prop nut on again just because. I really am getting close to finally finishing this up until any other unforeseen snowballs come flying my way. I'll keep you guys posted. All you northern guys have nothing else happening for a few months yet anyhow so you can chill (literally) and enjoy the struggles with one of the “other guys” boats. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1794 |
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I am glad that all worked out in the end. That thread chaser looks to be a awesome tool for that job. Never knew such a thing even existed. Don't take this the wrong way but it's good to know these things happen to others! I thought I was the only one that could take a somewhat easy job and make it very very difficult. [:-B
Your bilge and all the workings within look fantastic. |
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Smithfamily
Platinum Member Joined: December-26-2007 Location: Orlando, Fl Status: Offline Points: 1602 |
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That's some awesome work Eddie!
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Js
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jbear
Grand Poobah Joined: January-21-2005 Location: Lake Wales FL. Status: Offline Points: 8193 |
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"Loud pipes save lives"
AdamT sez "I'm Canadian and a beaver lover myself"... |
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storm34
Grand Poobah Joined: November-03-2008 Location: Dexter Iowa Status: Offline Points: 4493 |
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Great work!
Are those engine cover alignment studs or stops to keep the cover from getting pushed into the pulley? |
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5323 |
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Eddie, fantastic work brother and thanks for going the extra mile for close ups on the issues being addressed..... Got to be the cleanest bilge I've ever seen. Everything I've seen you do is immaculate, clean and organized. No wonder 'The Bear' hangs out with you!
Interesting rudder setup....You're dang sure not losing for for sure! |
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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lewy2001
Grand Poobah Joined: March-19-2008 Location: NSW Australia Status: Offline Points: 2234 |
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Eddie nice work.........almost OCD
Most aussie ski boats use the same type of rudder port with seals. Infact they use the same seal type setup on the log. After having both types I like the simplicity of the packing gland and nut. |
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If you're going through hell, keep going
89 Ski <a href="http://www.correctcraftfan.com/diaries/details.asp?ID=5685" ta |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Great work Eddie. I do believe Mark's comment is an understatement!
It's great you were able to save the prop shaft. I've had to cut the nut off when someone used s SS nut on the SS shaft. I too now have a 3/4"-10 die!!! |
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Look closer Chris. Those are the front engine mount adjustment studs. The pic definitely makes it look like they're on each corner for the engine cover though. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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