Carburated VS Fuel Injection |
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Captain Nick
Senior Member Joined: December-01-2013 Location: Batavia, IL Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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Posted: February-13-2016 at 10:06pm |
Which do you prefer between Carburated vs Fuel Injection for you Correct Craft?
The pros and cons of both? What year did Correct Craft use fuel injection in there boats? |
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Live life to the fullest!
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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FWIW --- I'd go with fuel injection.
Benefits: 1. better starting 2. better economy 3. better performance 4. less emissions Negatives: 1. more expensive up-front cost. 2. more complex to repair with the expense that goes with it. New FI engines are very reliable. However it's hard to beat the simplicity of a carb -- think of how many FI engines are running around -- millions and millions of trouble free operating hours. My current, and past three inboards have been carbureted, but I'd go with fuel injection if I had the choice. |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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Carb is my preference but I wouldn't turn down a GT40. On an outboard EFI is the only way to go IMO. 4160 are practically a dime a dozen, seems like we go average of 7 years without problems. I spend many hours on a gt40 and a X343 as well as my carb'd motors, I don't see any difference in efficiency nor smoothness between the motors. Granted the Excal has more power. A common excuse people give for wanting EFI is bc they want ease of starting for wifey. Maybe it's bc we're in warm Florida or my carbs are a bit rich but my wife has no trouble on cold starts. Plus if you're a gear head, try cranking significant more power and performance mods with EFI.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Yes, it seems there are some who feel EFI's will start better but I do wonder if they, and or their mechanic are carb challenged? I have never had any starting issues with my carb'd engines even with 20 year old point sets and one with side draft's that many feel are problematic. Many may feel carbs are "old school" but so am I!! |
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Carb all day long.
I know some will call foul but to me EFI is a band aid for the lazy or mechanically challenged. How many times have you heard this when people are talking about a carb: They're inefficient, messy, leak, clog or gum up, terrible performance, smoke bad, stumble, start like crap hot and start even worse when cold. These are the same people who probably say this about EFI: It's more efficient, better starting, reliable and much better performance and always a big emphasis on what awesome throttle response it has. Yet in the same breath, these same people will say something like: Carbs are so easy and simple. So when I question them about the carb in question they have no idea how much vacuum their engine is pulling, what jets are in the carb, what power valve they have or when the secondaries open. So the million dollar question is this: If carbs are so damn easy and simple, why the f**k haven't you tuned it then?????? Carbs are every bit as good or better than EFI if you take the time to tune it. The ONLY advantage that EFI does have is tuning itself on the fly real time. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Grand, Did you have the opportunity to go back to school? The "new school" that is! Eddie expounded on the subject more than I did but I feel he did say it all. I also feel he's certainly a better at the subject than I am. I have the feeling this thread will continue on with lots more input. Keep the input coming. |
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Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5320 |
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I've owned a Correct Craft for 16 years and have driven many years and models since I got involved with this group of Ski Bums. I have never had an issue with a carburetor in those 16 years. I've rebuilt the one in the 88' just because I figured the needles and diaphragms needed replacing after 20 years. (it was running fine when I took the carb apart) They have been nothing but trouble free in both boats that I have. Having said that the only thing I do like about FI is the immediate engine response to throttle movement. 99% of the time it catches me off guard when I drive one.
Eddie nailed it above but yet I think having a carburated engine in these old boats just adds to the uniqueness and funability in them. A little preventative maintenance along the way and you shouldn't ever have too many issues with em'. It's motorhead stuff and for many of us its the tinkering/fixing part (if needed) that brings us joy. |
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"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
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DayTony
Gold Member Joined: June-30-2013 Location: Salem MA Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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I'm with the carburetor crowd, for three main reasons.
Upgradeability reliability Diagnostics Even though you can re-map an ECM, it better be getting done real time by the guy that has your engine sitting on his dyno. if power is your main concern your better off throwing out the factory stuff and going with stand alone system running wide band O2. Engine does not start. on a carb its one of a very few things that could be wrong and with a correctly stocked onboard toolbox you could be on your way sooner than you think. EFI good luck if your not 100% familiar with your system and have a multimeter onboard(should always carry one anyways) all too many times I have seen a bad ground be the culprit of a do not start situation, that kind of issue can cause multiple things in an efi to send false readings. which can drive a shadetree mechanic bonkers. That being said EFI does have its perks for the guy who doesnt work on his own boat and its great for the mechanics that that guy brings them to. If it is in a saltwater environment I side with carb 100% |
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1988 Barefoot nautique-454
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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You guys are too funny, I suppose you all grow your own hay for your everyday drivers
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Gary, Seriously, what does growing hay have to do with the pros and cons of fuel systems? Are you suggesting that since the carb is old tech that engines should be retrofitted with injection? BTW, how does an internal combustion engine run on hay? |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Merely that whenever something new comes along,someone always says it's no good. It was said with the car vs horse, if man were meant to fly, the internet will never catch on,Japanese cars are junk,etc. I have both and both work as intended. If I was buying new and had a choice FI would be the way I'd go. I happen to think PCM has remarkable engines with the horsepower,economy,reliability combined with a warranty that a carbureted engine cannot match.
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81nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: September-03-2005 Location: Big Rock, Il Status: Offline Points: 5778 |
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Hot rods loud, ski boats quiet... Old boats carb'd, new boats FI
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Alan, This one is old, it's a hot rod and a skier so should it be loud or quiet? |
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john b
Grand Poobah Joined: July-06-2011 Location: lake Sweeny Status: Offline Points: 3241 |
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I have never driven a FI boat. Are there a lot boat owners who replace a carb with FI or vice versa? Unless there is an issue with reliability or performance with a specific make and model I can't imagine why anyone would deviate from the manufacturers design unless you are racing your boat. In that case I can think of better boats than these inboards to accomplish the task. There is not a lot of performance to be gained from an older NA engine by just changing to FI..
We do a lot of tweaking in my car club and it requires FI at that level, but these are forced induction engines that run 24-38 psig boost, were designed with FI, have data logging capability, and produce up to 7hp per cu in. Many have stand alone systems. It is the last thing I would want to power my ski boat. Tim and Joe have shown that there is plenty of performance in the carbed engines and to date I havent seen anything equal to their performance in a ski boat converted to FI. |
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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Donald80SN
Grand Poobah Joined: January-12-2009 Location: Denver, NC Status: Offline Points: 3896 |
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You asked when Correct Craft changed over to FI. It was in the early 90's and it was with the throttle Body injection and the Pro-Tec Ignition. With the Pro-Tec, in most cases you were likely better off to have the old carb set up and that is the cure for the old Pro-Tec problems is to go back to a Carb and a DUI ignition. However, new technology can be problematic at the start and things seemed to work out nice after the Pro-Tec and the throttle Body went away for more of a direct injection system.
With the help of TimB. and Joe NY, my carbed 80 ran great, but I do love my 2002, FI GT40 and so does my wife. She just pushes the start button and you are ready to go with a warm engine, to a point. I do fear the day I need to trouble shoot the GT 40, with the dual fuel pumps that can be problematic and all of the relays and sensors and such. You can not just pour a little gas in the carb to eliminate the am I getting fuel part of the trouble shoot with a fuel rail. I just could not pass up the opportunity to own a 2002 Master's pickup boat. JMO, Donald |
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1980 Ski Nautique SOLD Back to Cypress Gardens
2002 Sport Nautique, GT-40, FCT2, Cover Sports, Tower Bimini, Inc., Wet Sounds Audio System, Star Gazer Wake Edition S. 1968 Ski Nautique, Project. |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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I'm in the "both" school of thought.
I like the carbs in my old CC and my jet boats. I like the injection in my '98 GT-40. All of them run very well. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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DayTony
Gold Member Joined: June-30-2013 Location: Salem MA Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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What it all comes down to is personal preference and experience. Same as it goes for cars and trucks. The truth of it all is under the right light, EVERY car, truck or boat is a piece of junk. some are just more glorified than others. They are ALL going to have issues, they are ALL going to give you grief at some point during its life, and they are ALL going to require maintenance.
Someone's always going to know someone else who had a horrible issue and blamed it on EFI and equally, someone else is always going to know another person who had a nightmare of a boat that happened to have a carb and they blamed it solely on that. in a perfect world those two people would never meet and never have this conversation. But this is the internet. And here we are haha. Proceed with can of worms |
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1988 Barefoot nautique-454
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ScottZ
Platinum Member Joined: January-20-2004 Location: Clanton, AL Status: Offline Points: 1154 |
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I have 3 carb Ski Nautiques, a GT40 Sport Nautique, and an efi outboard. I like them both.......old school and new school. I am not interested in updating old fuel systems to new. I like to keep as close to original as I can. If I do update something it is something that can be easily changed back to original and is not obvious (points to electronic ignition, for example). I do need more education on tuning carbs. Slowly but surely I will get there.
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Scott Zuelzke
Lake Mitchell , AL 1984 Ski Nautique 1972 Skier |
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Captain Nick
Senior Member Joined: December-01-2013 Location: Batavia, IL Status: Offline Points: 129 |
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I myself like them for different reasons. The carbureted have a better rumbling sound then the fuel injection. For instance my next door neighbor's boat is a Mustang 17. That boat sounds like a Scarab. Just an awesome sound to it. The fuel injection is nice because if you happen to use the boat all the time. For instance watersports or long boat rides. The fuel is a bit more of a sipper. What's been mentioned before keep the boat looking as stock as possible.
I think it'll come down to the looks and ride of the boat more so then carb vs fuel injection. Thank you all for your input. |
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Live life to the fullest!
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aupatking
Senior Member Joined: October-03-2013 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 139 |
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I don't know carbs. Pretty much it. I'm good with Legos, is my basic description of my mechanic skills. I'm real good at pulling off injectors and putting new ones on.
Rich versus lean? I hope to find a wife that's both. Just don't tell my wife that joke. |
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Hussler
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I lol'd |
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john b
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Made my day aupatking!
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1970 Mustang "Theseus' paradox"
If everyone else is doing it, you're too late! |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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What surprised me the most moving from a carb to EFI in a CC was the increased fuel efficiency. It was a noticeable difference and that was even going to a bigger boat with more HP. Reliability I have experienced with EFI has been very good, put about 500 hrs on a GT-40 and never changed a single component including ignition/tune-up. Have about 600 hrs on the Excal and have only replaced the LP fuel pump. Gone thru 3 caps and 1 set of plugs and a rotor. For a regular workhorse ski machine EFI is tough to beat!!
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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All other things being equal modern computer controlled fuel Injected engines last longer, get better fuel economy, and have better performance between idle and wot. How much longer and how much better depends on a lot of factors, but don’t kid yourself into thinking a carb is better in any way other than cost. That being said they are more than good enough for day to day ski boat use and my daily driver summer vehicle is carbed and also serves me nicely through 3 seasons. But I do appreciate the crap out of my fuel injected commuter in the winter.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Nick, The rumbling is all in the exhaust system and not the fuel system. You may have noticed that newer injected boats are quieter but that's because the exhausts have some form of mufflers. |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Glad you guys chimed in on efficiency, I meant to comment on it. I am fine with whatever anyone likes, and as I said I like both carbs and efi depending on the application, but I don't buy claims that carbs are as efficient as efi. Like Eddie said above, efi tunes "on the fly" for optimum fuel delivery. With a carb I'm having someone drive while I look at the carb to see what kind of rpm/speed I can run without getting into the secondaries so I know what the efficient speed to run at is. And if you run a 2 bbl carb set up for efficiency, you can't get the power you want. Efi is a great way to maximize power and efficiency.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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LOL... More Horsepower??? Really???? HP numbers are so inflated it's not even funny. Not saying that old numbers aren't either but I've driven new high tech 400+HP cars as well as 350+HP classic muscle cars. There is no way that you can convince me that new 420HP Mustang or 375HP Ram is truly the rated HP. Watch vids of a 340 Six-pack Challenger whipping the s**t out of a new 425HP SRT8 not once, but six different times and everyone immediately screams the 340 was modded and the SRT8 driver didn't know what he was doing. How can new technology get toasted so bad???? Economy? Reliability? Warranty? Carbed engines never got 25MPG, ran for decades untouched or were warrantied???? Go to any enthusiasts forum you want, doesn't matter what ones, I'll wait...... Still waiting..... OK, there you go. Look at the predominant discussions about guys wanting to mod their brand new rides to add more HP (I defer to the above HP response that 425HP isn't enough???), cold air intakes, dual exhaust, headers, bigger tires, Blah, Blah, Blah......You get the idea. The one and ONLY thing they're ever concerned about is if it will void their precious warranty. Science has proven that A/F ratios of 16 or 17/1 provide the best economy however it gets dangerously close to being way too lean. On the other end of the spectrum, science has also proven that the most power is generated with A/F ratios in the 12 or 13/1 range. Manufacturers have settled on splitting the difference at 14.7/1. so they don't have these engines coming back on warranty. Contrary to popular opinion, these new EFI engines are still nowhere near perfect. They can be more economical or provide more power but they can't do both. Sounds like a carb doesn't it? C'mon Gary, you're retired now and have lots of time on your hands. Go tune your carb for more power or more economy or even split the difference but please go tune your carb and stop this old school denial stuff. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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I bought a new boat in 2003 and opted for the carb engine. I could have had the top of line efi for $1800 upcharge, but actually wouldn't have taken it for free. No regrets, the boat has always run well. And I don't know how to tune a carb like Eddie suggests. I've never understood the hard start argument. What ski boat owner has trouble starting their carb engine? And I always let the boat get up to normal temp before going faster than an idle, so efi compensating for cold running does not matter to me one bit. That said, if I was buying a new boat now, I would accept efi as that is all you can get now due in part to federal clean air regulations.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Gary,
How many years "into the future" did it take you to dump your POTS? Wait, you still have it for the Uverse! (at least the drop!!) |
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