Flow of raw water through motor |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Grant, You did it again!!! Thomas does not have fresh water cooling!! |
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Tim D
Grand Poobah Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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Like TimB said, the engine is going to back fill When I put my GT40 in the water, you can hear it back filling the first few seconds. When you pull your boat out of the water, the block doesn't remain completely full without the water flow. You can take the thermostat out and there won't be any water at the top of the intake manifold.
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Tim D
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Tell him to look under his boat. If he can't find any there - - he can use some of mine. There's plenty enough to share. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Grant, I have to ask if you know what fresh water cooling is or are you just trying to be funny? The diagram you posted is fresh water cooling. If you don't know what it is, I'd be happy to explain it but in another thread so as not to confuse Thomas even more. |
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DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
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Grant posted a beautiful rendition (in color) of closed cooling.
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Blamey
Gold Member Joined: August-18-2015 Location: White Plains,NY Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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Fresh water is closed cooling. Raw water is the open cooling. |
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96 Super Sport
Previously: 95 Sport Nautique, 1980 Ski Supreme |
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DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
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edited: keep scrolling |
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Blamey
Gold Member Joined: August-18-2015 Location: White Plains,NY Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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I agree the term fresh water for closed is confusing but I believe it come from use fresh vs salt water for cooling. |
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96 Super Sport
Previously: 95 Sport Nautique, 1980 Ski Supreme |
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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I'll agree. And the latest diagram I posted is a CLOSED system. -- where the cooling of the coolant in the closed loop is via a heat exchanger. It's a much BETTER system for cooling a marine engine. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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It is a much better system but also contributes to some of the reason why a new boat costs more than your first house
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DrCC
Grand Poobah Joined: April-12-2004 Location: at home Status: Offline Points: 2867 |
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edit: continue scrolling.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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WHY? |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Easier to winterize? the ability to use aluminum block and heads in all types of water?
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Why Better?
There are many reasons, but for me the two major reasons why "closed" is better than "open." 1) The engine can operate at optimum temperatures when cooled by a "closed loop." These temperatures are much higher than those you are able to safely regulate with an open system like the one I'm trying to regulate on my old Skier -- the one with a cracked block I had to replace because the previous owner didn't drain the "open system" water. 2) The coolant coming in contact with the block, heads, intake manifold and circulating pumps are of a known chemical make-up -- clean, especially designed for that application -- better (more efficient) heat transfer, less internal corrosion, freeze point depression, lubricating qualities, etc., etc. A DISCUSSION HERE |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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You wouldn't want an early Holman Moody then Grant- they barely crack 120 on the very hottest days
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Good to know, I'll correct in my notes. Thanks, Wouldn't it be nice if posts here could be edited (by author)? Would make the whole thing more useful, methinks. : -) |
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fanofccfan
Platinum Member Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1774 |
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You can......go to your post and in upper right hand corner is "post options". edit post is one option to use. |
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Good to know. I'll bet there were some interesting discussions between HM and CC about that. I lived and worked in Charlotte in 1964-68. A good friend did special machine work for HM -- bending the rules a bit for HM's left-front suspensions. I visited their shop a few times -- at the airport. I don't remember anything about their marine activities. But they were grinding cams, so it makes sense that they got involved with boat engines. RE: "Flow of raw water through motor" Have we drifted far enough from the subject? |
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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Consider it done! |
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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In THIS manual, we find the following diagrams. And, BTW, with a properly designed Closed Cooling System, water temperature under the boat should have little or no effect on engine operating temperature.
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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FWIW:
We are still not happy with the temperatures in MacSkier, and wonder if anyone here is getting readings above 120F. Our suspicion is that there is too much "warmed" water leaving the boat via the aft-most orifices in the manifolds' aft-cap, and we will again try restricting the "side" openings in those caps. Restrictions here will force more "warmed" water into the thermostat chamber -- where water temps have NEVER opened the 'stat. Also, we have run tests that show NO water is leaving the "thermostat/pressure release" chamber via the uppermost hoses -- the ones leading to the upper jacket in the manifolds. We also suspect there has been no water at the temperature gauge sensor, which would explain cool readings on the boat's gauge -- temps confirmed with handheld infrared gauge. The engine is running great -- outperforming expectations -- but cool running has to be harmful to the engine. BTW, there are some excellent discussions of marine engine cooling here. LINK |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21169 |
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I run 150 on my conquerer-crusader. Sounds like you have something plumbed incorrectly. Adding restrictions is not the proper solution.
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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That's what we keep telling ourselves! |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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It has been my experience that air at the sensor would read higher temperature than water.
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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"It has been my experience that air at the sensor would read higher temperature than water. "
That was my expectation. But a fellow here who owned a big boat dealership showed me how if there is no water around the sensor, readings are low -- this was confirmed with hand-held infrared thermometer. There is plenty of water cooling the block, heads and intake manifold -- and exiting the "engine" (via the intake manifold near the sensor's location.) |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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How did he show you that?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I'm curious too! |
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GMacLaren
Senior Member Joined: August-22-2013 Location: St. Louis, MO Status: Offline Points: 495 |
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He drew a sketch, similar to mine.
On the Skier's engine, the effluent from the engine's water jackets is lower than the thermistor's location in the intake manifold, so it is possible the thermistor is not in the coolant. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Online Points: 21169 |
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Exhaust manifold inlets are always lower than the thermostat housing, why would that matter?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I feel Grant should go talk to this gentleman for more information:
He must know more about it that we do?? Maybe big boats are different? |
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