Prop question/suggestion/problem |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Oh I know Im chasing my tail. I was gonna be done but I have this basically brand new prop sitting in my garage and 275 bucks out of my pocket so I was going to sell it. I figured maybe somebody would want to do a straight up trade for another prop to try so I posted that. If it was not for eric I would be done and just trying to sell my prop. But he thinks the 11.5 could be better and he is sending it to me free to try. I cant say no to that.
Trust me I would love nothing more to tear into the motor and do a bunch of motor work. Its super interesting to me and I would love to learn how to do that sort of stuff. But im not gonna throw money into a boat that Im going to get rid of and upgrade in a couple years or shorter. Nice thing my buddy adam has his eye on a malibu flightcraft and if it is still there in a couple months then we will prob go get it. |
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shierh
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 605 |
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what about re-map the ECU.
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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I dont really even know what that means
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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It wouldn't take more than 1500 to put into the motor... if yours wasn't fuel injected it would take about the same to put some vortec heads on it and you would be sitting pretty on one foot
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Just wondering why is the fuel injection bad. What makes it harder to modify?
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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It might work well enough if you modify it without reprogramming the computer, or it might end up a bit too lean and burn things up... without having the ability to modify the programming its a bit too much of a risk for most to take.
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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I got ya. I dont wanna do that. I like my boat to cost me almost nothing and just run. My boat gets no love haha. My friends call it the Budgetfooter 190.
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shierh
Gold Member Joined: April-29-2015 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 605 |
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Re Mapping the ECU is re programming the thing. You can adjust timing and air fuel mixture. If you modify you will have to do this either way.
In your car the system is set up for EPA, runs very lean. You can adjust timing and fuel, run richer and more power by re program. On my Harley i had a stage 2 done and also increased CID and with the tune I can pull a heritage softail off the ground, for non bikers this is a heavy pig. |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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I got ya that makes sense. I dont think its worth messing with especially if adam gets an outboard here soon.
My 450 you cant keep the front wheel down. Its not so heavy tho. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3764 |
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If you change camshafts the ECU can freak out and cause issues.
Changing the Heads won't affect the ECU. It should detect the exhaust fuel mix and adjust properly. Should be a headache free upgrade. My 1986 Malibu had the 350 Chevy with a 4bbl Carb on it done by Mercury Marine. Ran really good at sea level and was rated 260 HP. Ran 48 MPH with a stock 13 x13 prop. Never damaged that prop in 23 years of use. Most of the fuel injected engines had higher horsepower ratings than the carb versions. Are you sure your engine is not a 305 instead of the 350? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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Only the latest marine engines have O2 sensors and run open loop. Most marine efi engines >10 yrs old are unable to adjust for changing induction components. This is why upgrading an efi engine is usually not an option- at least a simple/cheap one. |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Im not going to anyways. And im pretty sure its a 350. I just was wondering. Need to sell this boat have some moeny saved up and get a small loan and buy one I will keep for a while. Then start making that one faster.
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jhersey29
Senior Member Joined: February-20-2014 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 272 |
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John Waring knows of a boat in Vail that hasn't been used in a long time. Reach out to him. I think it's a prostar outboard of some sort. He may reach out to Adam on Facebook.
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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I want adam to get an outboard so I dont have too.
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3764 |
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If you only change compression you don't change the fuel mix at all.
Timing would remain the same at that altitude. In the altitude he is running small chamber heads would just help offset the loss of compression due to altitude. If the system could not be adjusted you would need to avoid the Vortec design as they run less timing than stock heads. Should restore some power without a negative effect unless he takes this boat back down to sea level where it would have detonation issues on pump gas. I think he would be fine but it sounds like a moot point now since it is for sale. |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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How would you change comp without switching heads? Mill the ones I got? Smaller head gasket? Or change heads but not vortec ones?
Oh and its not for sale yet. Well actually it is because eveything is always forsale. But im hoping of getting rid of it in a year or two. |
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Vortec heads would be the only reasonable change he should consider - nothing is more sure or cost effective. |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Thought those did not work?
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
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Only if on your engine the All-in timing cannot be adjusted back without also messing the timing up at idle.
If the advance is all ECU, then its a problem. If the advance system is mechanical in the distributer, then with some internal adjustments, the guidelines for Vortec heads can be adhered to, and you get the power from improved VE. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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This sounds too hard. Ill end up blowing something up or its just gonna run like crap. Ill leave it. Thanks for the info tho. Always great to learn.
On a side note the new prop should be in tomorrow. Hopefully ill get to throw it on and run it. |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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what exact engine do you have? can you post a pic?
Is it MPI or EFI (TBI)? |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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Another easy way to more hp and speed that is plug and play...sell your entire engine complete and then drop in either a carbed or efi 383 mag stroker from mercruiser complete...plug it in turn the key and go fast
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This is the life
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3764 |
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A couple questions above.
You could switch to Dart cast Iron heads with 64cc chambers and bump compression while also improving flow. Would not affect your limited EFI system at all but would bump power. The OEM heads have 76cc chambers in the 80's up to the Vortec design. The Vortec heads are hands down the best bang for the buck. Up to about 5,000 RPM they perform as well as some of the very best available at 25% the cost. This RPM range is perfect for a boat engine. I only ruled them out due to his limited EFI System that does not allow changes in timing. and the fact that you would need an aftermarket intake manifold to work with a Vortec Head. For this combo cost you can buy a set of cast iron Dart heads and equal the performance of the vortec up to 5,000 and outperform it above 5,000 RPM. The Dart would use the factory boat intake and run with the EFI this man has on this boat. I think they call them Iron Eagle heads for around 800. The 383 upgrade is a good one also but again, more money and far more involved installation. They do pull much harder for sure over a 350 but once again we bump into the limitation of his EFI system not being adjustable. If you increase displacement you will need more fuel to match this change and this EFI is locked so that can't happen without someone with serious know how. Dart heads or similar heads will work with OEM timing and just changing compression does not change the fuel mix so your EFI would be fine with the change. Those are the reasons for my advice but the boat is for sale and this is a dead discussion unless someone else wants to upgrade a high altitude boat. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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If the dart heads flow any differently (presumably better), I do not see how you can confidently state that his non-adjustable A/F curves are going to compensate just fine.
There are guys who have rebuilt their GT40's who claim that a .030 overbore was enough of a displacement change to cause the EFI system to hiccup. Either way, I don't think landis is up for a head swap... He's convinced an outboard is the way to go. |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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Where did you get that 260hp spec? I'd bet that engine is 280-315hp and already has Vortec heads...so this whole upgrade debate would end up just plain weird. You could use you engine serial n° to find out what engine and specs you have in there. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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backfoot100
Platinum Member Joined: January-03-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Nope. The boat is a '92 and the Votec didn't come out til '96. |
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When people run down to the lake to see what's making that noise, you've succeeded.
Eddie |
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Luchog
Grand Poobah Joined: April-17-2007 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 2135 |
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And how do you know the boat has not been repowered?
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