Engine won't start |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Posted: June-05-2016 at 5:47pm |
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I have an 87 ski nautique that I purchased last fall and I'm having problems getting it to start. A little background info on boat, it has sat for the last 14 years in climate controlled storage and not been run. Here's a list of what I've done so far to boat,
Drained bad gas New fuel filter New fuel pump, old one was clogged New holley 4160 marine carb, old one leaked gas out of a few gaskets after pump replacement New plugs and wires New cap and rotor Distributor already had ei conversion done by po New starter, battery and battery cables. The motor wants to fire but won't. I've double and tripped checked that #1 plug at TDC on compression stroke, after I pulled distributor and primed oil pump. All electrical connections and wires are good from dash to motor. Compression was a little low ~90 on all cylinders, figured OK there since boat has not ran into long time. I have good spark at all cylinders and I'm getting fuel through the carb into the intake and down to plugs. Last time I checked all you needed for an engine to run was fuel, spark, and air(compression). I'm starting to become frustrated with this and any help would be greatly appreciated |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Sounds as though you have all the key ingredients to run. Check TDC , then roll it around another 10 degrees or so. And make sure that the rotor is pointing towards # one stud on distributor. Crank it over. May even need to prime the carb some. If it cranks hard then back it up slightly. Should fire.
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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I would guess weak spark. Maybe get an inline tester to verify .
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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I have verified spark is good with an inline tester. TDC is set roughly 10 degrees. Every time I try to start it the first couple starts are the best, as in it almost fires, pushes water out through exhaust as it should, but then starts get weaker until I charge battery back up. I'm so dumbfounded as to what issue could be. I've had many people who understand motors a lot more than I do and even have similar motors in their boats and cars(knowing rotation is reversed) and no one seems to be able to come up with an answer, everyone says there is no reason it shouldn't start
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Battery the right size with enough cranking amps? (group 65)
Choke closing and set properly? |
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oldcuda
Senior Member Joined: June-22-2010 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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Is it equipped with ballast resistor? Only getting spark while cranking?
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Here is what I'd check-
being an 87 it should be a right hand rotation engine. When you try to start it are the pulley's turning counter clockwise when viewed looking at the front of the engine? If not,new starter could be wrong.If that checks out I'd check the firing order for a reverse rotation 351 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Gary,
I've got a funny feeling you hit on the problem!! Chris, Why did you install a new starter? Hopefully you did use a marine version! |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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New starter was installed because old one was locked up, it is correct starter, it was ordered from nautique parts. Pulleys are rotating counterclockwise as they should and firing order as wired on cap and labeled on nameplate of motor 18456273. It is a brand new battery with 850cca and the ballast resistor is dropping the voltage as it should. I can't remember the exact ohms of resistor and what voltage is coming off of it as its been a while since I checked those. The choke on the carb is operating as it should but I have not adjusted anything on carb yet, it does shoot fuel in while cranking if throttle is pumped as it should, I know some slight adjustments will be needed on carb once I can get it running.
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Your sure the rotor is pointing at the #1 post when it's at TDC
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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The wires on the cap are wired counterclockwise. When I set TDC the rotor is pointing at roughly 1 o'clock which from what I've researched is where number 1 is located
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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CCW is correct. Now see where the #1 wire goes. Trace it back from the spark plug. Then trace ALL the wires back to the cap and verify they are correct. It really makes no difference about the 1 o'clock position as long as the firing order sequence is followed and #1 socket on cap is in position with the rotor.at TDC #1 Verify YOUR firing order |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I feel you have misunderstood the concept. The distributor orientation can be anywhere within 360 degrees consequently the plug wires can start anywhere within 360 degrees. There is no orientation to a clock. Get the #1 to TDC compression again, look at where the rotor is pointing and start with the #1 plug wire there. Where have you been researching? |
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Wakerider81
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I have verified firing order and have had 2 other people verify that firing order is correct. Everyone seems to be stumped and says it should start up
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Are they going by the 1 O'clock position as well? |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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I was just using 1 o'clock as a reference, each time I have set TDC the rotor has ended up pointing at 1 o'clock roughly. I have gotten a lot of my info from this website doing numerous searches, that's what is frustrating I've followed advise and info from here and I'm still not getting it to fire. I really want to figure this out on my own and do the work myself instead of taking it to a shop and having them fix it
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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How are you referenceing numbering the cylinders?
If you perhaps have chevy on the brain, all they share is #1 |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Front of motor
5. 1 6. 2 7. 3 8. 4 |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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What Duane, Pete and I are referencing is that once you get #1 to TDC then where ever the rotor is pointing. (1-o'clock or 4-o'clock) doesn't really matter as long as that is where the # 1 plug wire is placed and your firing order goes from there around the cap counter clockwise.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Check that, I was mistaken, no jugs share common numbers between the two brands
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Do double check that the #1 TDC is at the compression and not the exhaust stroke.
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Grand,
When using finger in number cylinder I have it set after I feel the sucking action in cylinder then I feel air pushing out and I have it set there, is that correct? |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Yes
Also to make sure your on the compression stroke the timing mark should be at zero Then to get it even closer to TDC turning the motor over by hand you can use a Phillips head or wood dowel in the plug hole to find exact TDC. (Usually helps to have an extra person for this) NOW MAKE SURE WHERE EVER THE ROTOR IS POINTING THATS WHERE YOU PUT THE #1 PLUG WIRE. and continue your firing order CC from there. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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No need for a piston stop unless you think your timing chain has skipped... The 0deg mark on the balancer is enough. Just make sure you confirm compression stroke. It's easy to misjudge if you're not rotating the engine over by hand.
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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That is what I was trying to emphasize |
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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I will check it all again today after work, I have been turning motor by hand while doing it.
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Wakerider81
Newbie Joined: June-05-2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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One other question, with compression being low what kind of oil could I spray in spark plug holes to help seal up the cylinders? Could them not being fully sealed since it sat for 14yrs have much to do with it not starting?
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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It's hard to do a long distance diagnosis, but, it sure sounds like you have the distributor 180 degrees off. Compression and exhaust stroke have similar characteristics when checking for TDC compression. Only certain way is to remove the valve cover and make sure both rocker arms are up at TDC. Was trying to keep you from doing that. If all else fails you may have to.
Some EI get full 12 volts and some get 8 or so off of the resister. Don't know what type you have and can only assume it ran in this configuration before. Good luck and hang in there. We've all been there. Duane |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Understand... But I suggest KISS. A breaker bar, a 15/16" socket and a helper to hold their thumb over plug hole #1 is really what he needs. A piston stop won't tell him which stroke he's on any better than the balancer will. The last person I know that tried to get fancy and confirm TDC position ended up dropping something in the cylinder and had to pull the head off to get it out. I will not name names. KISS. :) |
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Hollywood
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I was going to suggest 180 off too but 1 o,clock is usually where #1 goes on the cap. A previous owner would have had to fudge the distributor.
Is it catching at all? |
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