Prop key way is sheered |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Adam,
I have encountered engines where due to the short throw of adjustment and how close the alternator is to the engine, both the alternator pivot points need to be removed to get the belt on. I do on my 302 Escort. NEVER stretch a belt over a sheave. It can break the cords inside the belt. |
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Ok I'll grab a fit full of them and see what the tightest one is I can get on by removing the pulley and or pivot points.
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Adam,
Don't remove the sheave on the alternator. Just take it off it's bracket to get it behind the new belt. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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You're being a HACK !!!!! You're going through all this Shiit because you're either to lazy or just don't want to do a little more work to make it right!!!! Go under the boat move the front of the strut a 1/8" to the right and the rear of the strut 1/8" left and I would bet all will fit as it's supposed too!!! And yes I'm yelling |
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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I think the concensus is that the root cause is that the strut is bent, not it's position. I positioned and shimmed the strut so it fit center with the log. So to make it "right" I would have to pull the strut again and take it to someone who could straighten it so that when it went center through the log it also ended up at nominal for the motor positioning. RIght now I have it so that everything in the drivetrain is nicely lined up and shouldn't create any stress. All I need is for the alternator to be spinning with the motor and I can cruise.
Clearly this alignment issue goes much farther back (rubbing marks on frame from alt) to a much earlier hit that bent it or even a factory offset alignment that has now been further exasperated by small hits through it's life. If I can get going for the summer it would be great and then over the winter I can pull the strut and make it perfect. |
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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If the shaft is somewhat centered in the hole on the bottom of the hull and also centered in at the log in the bilge then there is no strut problem.
You'd be safe sanding some of the engine cradle edge down for a little extra clearance too. |
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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ok thanks
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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I would be continuing as you've planned. Remove the alternator and sneak in the smallest belt you can. Then go boating.
You could have a Friday boat where everything was never perfectly aligned from the start. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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I had this on my '95 It's not a "Friday boat" it could be a "bent strut" but my bet is what Doc stated post's ago. Just because the hack that owned it before him thought it was OK to shove the motor over so far that the alternator rubbed the frame doesn't make it right. Just because the shaft is centered in the hole doesn't mean it's going through the hole straight!!!! I'm betting it's not bent it just need adjusted. When my wife bent my '95s the new one wouldn't align without pushing the motor to the mount limits I had to oval the mounting holes in the glass to get it parallel. If it is bent and you can get it aligned like you have it then if you move the strut some you should be able to align it without cutting mounts and grinding space for the alternator. I would also bet that the prop end of the shaft isn't in center line with the rudder. PETE I can't believe you aren't going nut's over this because it's driving me nuts |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I AM going nuts over the issue as well and I even mentioned it to Adam before Al did!!!!
The bent out of aligned strut came up way back but it seems someone has headed in his own direction and not listening to our suggestions/comments! |
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Both you knuckleheads need to go on a time out, lol, he obviously get's it however just wants to take his kids skiing right now. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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If the shaft is going through the log straight it makes absolutely no difference if the strut is bent. The cutlass holds the shaft and points it through the log. The "web" of the strut can be an S for all I care it is only there to connect the cutlass to the hull, via the base of the strut. The base bolts to the hull. The strut simply connects the shaft to the hull.
Pete asked and I've also commented on the shaft being centered THROUGHOUT the log, not just where it pokes through in the bilge. I sure hope that while BuckingBronco was laying under the hull reattaching the strut he would have noticed if the shaft is now hard to one side of the hole in the hull from underneath and poking out hard to port in the bilge. Obviously this is what DrCC an gun-driver are assuming. Please confirm things look good from underneath too. If so, he simply has a poorly installed log or stringers, or both. OP also mentioned all settings looked factory. Pete always says alignment starts at the strut but I say it starts at the log. The log is the one thing that doesn't move. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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I guess my point is that by the time he does all the crap to make it fit improperly he could have just gone under and made the strut correct and been done. Along with having his mind at ease to enjoy the rest of the summer knowing it was done right. |
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Why do Mommy and Daddy fight so much. Is it because of me?
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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YES!!!! You dam kids never listen
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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To clear up any concerns that I am totally retarded.
I shimmed the strut with two washers in back so that it was centered top to bottom in the log. I actually attached the couplings together loosely (shaft attached to the tranny). When I put the strut back in so that the cutlass axis was pointing exactly at the tranny coupling center. I did this while making sure the motor was adjusted so that the shaft was centered left to right in the log. The only axis left to align then was the angle of parallelism between the shaft coupling and the motor coupling. To do this the back of the motor had to be adjusted port a smidge more and there was no more smidge to be had unless the alternator belt was willing to take a smidge more slack. Additional observations. The log coming through the hull does not look particularly straight. The aluminum motor frame is already chewed up from the alternator. It is feasible that some employee getting a *************** low wage and has assembled the thousandth one of these boats and is also wondering if his wife is banging the boy scouts troop leader because she keeps going on the camping trips and they don't have a son in boy scouts, put the log in a bit off and decided to fix it only if the motor couldn't be shifted over far enough to compensate. It was barely marginal when he checked the coupling gap, who the hell is going to notice the shaft couplings are .004 off and *************** it it's almost quitting time, I'm going to go get drunk and pretend this is just jock itch. Fast forward 20 years and I'm in my driveway wondering why the hell I got into boating and there is an 8 year old who thinks her dad is lame. I'm just trying to mitigate the "lame part" at this point. We'll make it perfect over the winter I promise.... even if I have to pull out the log. |
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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You haven't answered my question. How is the shaft centered going INTO the log. You only seem to be concerned with the shaft EXITING the log.
Like a toggle switch, your shaft may be wicked off going through the log. The log is 3 dimensional, not just 2. You should never have tried to align the new shaft to the transmission. You should align the shaft go perfectly centered through the log. The log is not a ring, it's a cylinder. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Kevin, It's all in how it's worded. I always say it starts at the strut because it is adjustable and the log isn't I mention starting at the strut since there are many out there that will do an engine alignment to shaft only not realizing their shaft could be out of parallel with the hull. This thread is a good example of the parallelism problem! |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Exactly why I'm saying it starts at the log otherwise parallelism gets skipped!
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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Hey when the "Grand Poobah's" collectively advise.......
So now where do I start? |
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Adam,
It looks like you missed this suggestion twice!!
It was meant as an easy way to check parallelism. Now that you have the strut removed, place the base on a flat surface and start measuring to see if there's any obvious bend or twist. Removing the strut was good anyway since you didn't bed the complete base to the hull with the 4200. You said you just caulked around the edges and at the bolts. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Thankfully you didn't use 5200...
Is it me or does it twisted in his hand? The web looks concaved. |
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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I definitely got a good bead on the bottom. It ripped off some of the gel coat when the strut came off. You can see it in this pic.
So with the naked eye it looks straight. but... I measured it and both the fore and aft ends of the cutlass bearing are about 0.100 to one side at top from the base edge. You can se the difference in gap in this pics at the base from the straight edge. In addition the base is not flat and it rocks on the table a little. So if I get this to the right guys they will be able to straighten her up? |
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Sure looks twisted to me, but hey it's just a photo on the 'net.
I checked mine by establishing a long centerline on big pc of paper. Center base of strut (using mounting holes) on line. Using your square check shaft bore against line. I think I had to use the cutlass to project rear bore past strut base, IIRC. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Some rocker on the base is to be expected with the pattern draft required during casting. You can grind that out if you wish.
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Adam,
I feel grinding the draft off the bottom will give you a better shot at measuring. |
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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I just dropped the strut off at a local prop marine shop. They said I'll have it tomorrow a.m. Guess who is getting free donuts and coffee tomorrow.
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Glad you see you are doing it right. What made you change your mind not to run it as is?
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BaccoBouncer
Senior Member Joined: April-25-2016 Location: Essex MA Status: Offline Points: 285 |
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I came back home with three belts and saw that it was just too little swing to get any of them to work. My next option was to cut the alt bracket, grind a bit of the alt and the cradle..... I wasn't going to go down the hack route as you feared. Up to that point the only non kosher thing I had done was take the tip off of the motor mount. If the alt belt had fit I had a good super tight aligned system that was a just a skew of the hull line a bit. It wouldn't track exactly straight but it wouldn't be hurting itself over the summer with vib and flex.
So the right path at that point was pull everything and get the strut fixed if that was the root cause. I got my daughter involved with pulling the strut last night so she could be apart of the process. She loved it. She told me this morning that it is great she is the smallest in the family and has little hands because she could fit so easily under the trailer and hold the screwdrivers. It was really cute. I think she is going to hold off on having another family on the lake adopt her for now. I saw the forms in her backpack. |
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'97 21' Sport Nautique
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Enjoy it now, when she is in her early teens you will be the one with the adoption papers in your backpack, lmao, trust me on that!!
Sounds like you are heading down the home stretch, good job, Happy Endings are great!! |
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