Basic Kid Skiing questions |
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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Posted: June-17-2016 at 2:55pm |
Confession time... I have only ever skied behind someone else's boat; therefore, Since I am hoping to get my boat on the water this year (first time since I have owned it), I was thinking about skiing gear and what I need to purchase. I have 2 wakeboards, an *Gasp* inflatable towed device, and life jackets, but not much else. So, looks like I need a couple of ropes and eventually a ski or two..
My kids are 9,7, and 2, so I am not expecting them to do much besides stand up, if they can even do that this summer. We are going to be super budget conscious with all of this stuff, so used gear is a good possibility, especially for ski's. - What kind of trainer skis do I need to look for? - How do I go about selecting a ski/wake rope? - How do I make the rope float? I've seen floaters and sinkers, and want to make sure the kids can find the rope on the water when we do have them attempting to ski or wakeboard. - anything else I need to look for? |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Ok so I will state first off that I dont have kids and I have never taught young kids but this is what I would maybe recommend (not for the 2 yo tho). I dont know how budget conscious you are? If you mean you have 50 bucks to spend or 500? But What I would do is go buy some kid trainers or a bit smaller combo skis. Something that is nice and wide. The bindings should be kinda loose so they come out of them easy on falls. You should be able to look at craigslist and get a pair for under 50 bucks and defiantly under 100. Next if you want to make it really easy on them look at craigslist for a barefoot boom. You can find them on craigslist for 200 but if you are in a rush-ish it should be sorta easy to find them for 300. Ppl say the boom is way easier to teach and gives a beginner confidence to then go long line. I will say I learned when I was about 10 years old and had no problem long line from the beginning. I was on just normal combo skis. As for a rope I think cheap handles float I may be wrong tho. The actual rope floats. But if a handle does not it will drag the rope down. None of our handles float and it is no issue. As a boat driver you can easily get the rope to the skier and they should never have to swim. Once the rope is in their hands there is no problem finding it. With the boat in motion circling the skier the handle will be dragged by the boat keeping it on top of the water. I would not worry about a floating handle.
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quinner
Grand Poobah Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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for 9 & 7 a pair of junior ski's, ideally a parabolic or wider set is ideal for getting them started and work best for teaching.
A decent 75' line with take-off loops is all you need and can be used for boarding or skiing, wherever you purchase just make sure to ask if the handle is a floater, that is important. Are you an experienced driver? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Boom.
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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My driving skills consist of several bayliner I/O runs in college with my older friends, and a couple of trips in the '82 before I pulled the stringers out. I haven't driven the 94 yet, and don't have any experience with younger kids. it'll be a learning experience all the way around.
Budget wise - I just spent $800 of our boating budget for the year on getting rid of the protec ignition, and replacing the 22 yr old exhaust/cooling hoses so we don't get a close up view of the bottom of the lake . Were going to be more in the $50 - $150 range for gear for this summer, so it may take some time to get all set up... |
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rebel skier
Gold Member Joined: October-17-2014 Location: Middle Tenn Status: Offline Points: 776 |
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Watch craigslist for a used kneeboard with a molded in or retractable handle hook. You should be able to find one for 50 or so. Nice way of getting a 9 or 7 yer old on the water where they can control the board.
Issue I have found with some of the newer wider skis for a 9 or 7 year old is how darn buoyant they are. It can be hard for the kids to hold them in position and underwater to get in starting form. Thus, I am also a fan of a nice pair of older wooden skis. |
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AAM196
Gold Member Joined: October-23-2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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Hey Kris,
I bet you are glad you got all that off your chest... LOL. Probably wanna find some jr trainers but your older ones (if bigger kids) should be fine with adult skis. Hard to say as my 9 yr old uses little one but there are kids on his baseball team that weight 125 lbs and wear size 11 shoes! try these! budget skis! |
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AAM196
Gold Member Joined: October-23-2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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I mean in less than a minute I see kids skis, jackets, ropes etc
Personally, I would buy a nice ski line as that will be with you for a while and can run close to $100 but yeah... but chances are, once you guys get decent... you will not even use the combos etc. so don't spend a fortune! |
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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whew, I do feel better I follow craigslist often, so I had seen those free ski's, With my kids being on the littler side, I wasn't sure what to even look for on the skis. I'll continue to watch craigslist for a boom and kneeboard and kid trainers. There was a set on consignment just south of me that looked kid friendly, I'll try and check those out this weekend. Both kids are near the 60# range and are still in the size 2 range for shoes.
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AAM196
Gold Member Joined: October-23-2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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Kris,
Something like this for kids 5 and under... with the line attached to the skis and an adult holding other end sitting on the motor doghouse... it is almost 90% chance for success (I've found)... and the person in boat can drop handle at anytime. Also, you can use a regular ski line once they get the hang of it... then take the bar and strap off that hold them together. And can probably use till around 70lbs. kidstrailer skis The next size up are good for 125 lbs but only have the bar... and really you can jump to a better set of skis. I will also say, with the trainers, they range from $99 to $150. The graphics are the only thing I have ever noticed being even remotely different between brands. |
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rebel skier
Gold Member Joined: October-17-2014 Location: Middle Tenn Status: Offline Points: 776 |
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These are from when my daughter was 8. We pulled them two at a time and let the more experienced one tell the other what to do.
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bkhallpass
Grand Poobah Joined: March-29-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4723 |
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If there is a water community nearby, Hit up the garage sales in that neighborhood, and
post want ads on their community bulletin board. I've paid $1-5 for good kids vests. I've bought a half dozen pairs of kids skis for under 10$. I never pay more than $5 for a knee board, and I've bought about 10 of them. I will say that the modern kids trainers, with a plastic bar to attach the two skis are nice. But I've also taught kids with the two skis tied together, and without an ties at all. Wakeboard may be harder to find on that budget. I have bought several for $35 to $50. BKH |
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Livin' the Dream
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bkhallpass
Grand Poobah Joined: March-29-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4723 |
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My daughter used a set exactly like these until she was about 70 lbs. Nice setup.
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/spo/5630679899.html BKH |
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Livin' the Dream
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bkhallpass
Grand Poobah Joined: March-29-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4723 |
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When my daughter outgrew the small trainers, I bought a pair of O'Brien Jr. Amigos.
http://nmi.craigslist.org/spo/5607474559.html. Still have these skis and teach kids 7 to 12 how to ski on them. The Amigo Jr. is very popular for teaching kids to ski the course. I was at a ski camp this week, and there were probably 10 kids sing on Amigo Jr. or the follow on ski, Vortex Jr. Mount them up with competition type bindings, and the kids are running slalom up to 30 mph on these things. I saw a set on craigslist in Tennessee for $25, but did not see anything in the Seattle Area. BKH |
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Livin' the Dream
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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garbage days in lake communities have produced 8 or so skis for me, perfect for beginners. Last week I pulled a clean cheap pair of HO's out of the garbage a few doors down. If you pay for the shipping I'll give them to you.... But the shipping may be more than you could find a local pair for.
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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Great info guys! please keep it coming, I am absorbing it and will narrow my search.
BKH- the Oregon ski's look tempting, I may have to find some family to grab them for next time they come to Seattle O76, Thank you for the offer, I'll PM you Rebel, I hope that's me in a summer :) awesome! |
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a0128
Senior Member Joined: May-05-2014 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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Before you even put the kids in the water I would spend at least 5 to 10 hours piloting your boat understanding how it handles, its turning characteristics, how to approach a fallen skiier, etc, etc. Several Bayliner runs in college does not qualify. Understand that boats don't have brakes. DD inboards also have certain handling characteristics much different than I/Os do. When you pull back to an idle in a DD you will lose a considerable amount of directional control direction as water is no longer being pushed past the rudder. Unless you understand how to approach a fallen skiier, circle around and stop the boat you are headed into dangerous waters and might likely injure one of them. I would practice using a fender. Run up to a speed you intend to pull your skier, throw the fender overboard, then go retrieve it. I am willing to bet the first couple of times you attempt this you will run over the fender. Better the fender than a kid. Oh and by the way , , , leave the beer on the dock for the time being. |
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If money can't buy happiness, explain beer and boats.
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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About that floating rope and handle...a barefoot wake slalom handle has floats and is 15" wide which adds stability so try and find an old barefoot international slalom handle ...get a good quality $ poly e ski rope with take offs. Used with the boom you can teach em to barefoot sitting in the slalom handle ...bonus!
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This is the life
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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Thank you, the last thing I want to do is hurt someone... We will be taking the boat out for a shakedown cruise prior to actually having kids on board even. I will plan for a day of Buoy retrival as you suggest. My wife and I did take the trailer and previous boat out for a shakedown in much the same way, practiced docking, trailer backing etc... We'll do the same here too. There won't be any beer for our outings, water safety is far too important for us to add the extra element of distraction. |
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tnplicky
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2006 Location: C'trl Illinois Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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It may not be in your budget, but give a boom some thought (approx $250 used, $500 new). I used one to teach my kids when they where 5 and 7 respectively. First weekend they got up with O'Brian All Star trainers off the boom, next weekend they got up with handle attached to the boom, third weekend they were skiing long line behind the boat. Repeated the process when we took the stabilizer bar off the trainers. We eventually moved them to O'brien Jr Celebrity Combos. We used the boom again when they learned to slalom (getting up on one, not dropping which we never taught them) and wakeboard. We have used the boom countless times to teach friends as well. It is easier on the person learning and in most cases, it greatly accelerates the rate of learning, making the day better for the boat driver and the others in the boat as well! A couple of other things.... I always keep the downed skier on the right hand / drivers side of the boat when circling around them to pick them up or to bring the rope back to them. The reason is that the driver never looses sight of the skier that way for safety. If the downed skier is on the left side of the boat as you circle around them, the driver can lose sight of them if in close proximity. Keep the boat turned off as people get in/out of the boat & platform Even though the prop is under the boat, make sure the person in the water and the rope is well away from the rear of the boat before starting. Also, kids don't need much throttle to get up, or much speed to stay up. Of course this depends on the weight of the child and type of skis, but easy does it. Ease into 10-12 mph, gradually getting to 15 mph or so (again, it depends on the child and equipment). Adjust speed from there as necessary. |
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tnplicky
Senior Member Joined: December-22-2006 Location: C'trl Illinois Status: Offline Points: 333 |
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This can be a problem for younger skiers. It is tough for them to remain in the correct position due to the buoyancy issue. I always thought about attaching 5 lbs weights of some kind to the tails of the trainers to help the stability issue in the water, but never did. I personally have not been a fan of the tow rope attached to the stabilizer bar on the trainers for several reasons, but everyone has their own preferences. It wasn't necessary with the boom option we used, but I realize that may not be in the cards for you. If you do use the rope to stabilizer bar method, as was mentioned earlier DO NOT attach the rope to the boat. Someone in the boat must hold the handle so they can release the rope if the child falls. If the rope is attached to the boat, you can end up dragging them under water if they don't come out of the bindings. |
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AAM196
Gold Member Joined: October-23-2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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Oh wow... that is a good point about making sure you are very comfortable operating boat before pulling skiers.. esp young skiers. It takes very little throttle to get a child up. Also, be mindful of your wake. I got in habit of only picking up skiers in gear (no wake) it keeps the situation calm, under control and safe.
For really young kids that have trouble wrestling with keeping skis under control, we like to have adult in water (wearing a life jacket) behind child holding the tail end of skis until the boat starts. Also, if mom is in water with child, talking to them and comforting their nerves, the success rate goes way up! The only failed attempt I have ever been a part of was a child just flat out refusing to try! If done well... the success rate is almost 98% lol. We really only use the rope attached to skis/bar for the first few times to build confidence. The boom is a great tool and highly recommend getting one esp if barefooting is something you are interested in but is expensive. But I like to get them behind the boat ASAP and not even use them boom unless they are having trouble which almost never happens. Another tool for teaching slalom are those V style easy up handles that keep ski stable and centered. I guess it also goes without saying, I only like teaching kids (and adults) how to ski that can swim and are comfortable in the water. Have fun! |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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You do not want a typical slalom line with the colored sections. This rope is poly Propelyene and is made to have a certain amount of stretch to it. The reason booms are so great is there is zero stretch. It's a solid pull. Think of learning to ski holding on to a bungee chord. As GlassSeeker said get ploy Ethelyne or spectra/dyneema. These are wakeboard/barefoot lines. For you wakeboard will be better as you don't need the added length of a barefoot line. And, wake and barefoot handles float.
A high pole will also really help. It's crucial you don't use a stretchy slalom rope up on a high pole. Get a boom as soon as you can. |
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IAughtNaut
Grand Poobah Joined: August-22-2010 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 2568 |
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no such thing as to slow with kids
also, if you're wondering how to hold the end of the rope in the boat, buy a cheap handle and make your rope double ended. make sure at least one of the handles floats though. or, attach a big foam bobber (think giant fishing lure) or colorful section of a pool noodle to the rope. it will float and not be in the way while skiing and your kids will see it coming in the water. I think somebody at one time said they filled old cans with something heavy and glued them to the top of the tail of the skis to make them sink in the water. you don't want them going to the bottom under the weight, and they will probably float vertically in the water when they come off which makes them harder to find and pick up, so paint the tips a bright color all the way around. or install LEDs. I make every first timer start on the boom, no matter what age. some adults get a little pissy, but it's funny how succeeding quickly cures that. |
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AAM196
Gold Member Joined: October-23-2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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My only issue with the boom is it only gets you 15% of the way toward your ultimate goal; there is still a lot of work ahead to have success behind boat! This holds true with skiing, slalom, barefooting, etc.
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IAughtNaut
Grand Poobah Joined: August-22-2010 Location: TN Status: Offline Points: 2568 |
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I have to disagree. the difference between 15% and say, 75% is the teacher. let's take the example of a child, since that was the original topic. maybe a kid gets up on two skis, hanging on to the bar, arms pulled all the way under their chin, knees locked out, but they're up because of the stability of the boom. a good teacher, with them right beside the boat can coach them into position....straighten your arms, bend you're knees, stand up straight. now remember that position and let go, we're gonna do it again. that kid doesn't get up on the long line. but if they do it a few times on the boom, get the feel, learn the body positioning so they're not relying on only strength, they're most of the way to being able to do it behind the boat. still work to be done of course, but that up close instruction is near impossible at 75ft. or 60, or 50, or whatever.
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AAM196
Gold Member Joined: October-23-2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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I see your point about having the skier right beside you... I am just saying a 40lb child can almost stand on the skis without moving while holding onto a bar... kind gives them the false sense of accomplishment.
I couldn't agree more with you on the teacher... probably makes ALL the difference. If parents coddle their kids or worste yet, yell at them... I just leave them on the dock and take kids with me... I had to do this with my brother who is too hard... I just want the situation to be fun but give them the impression we aren't going back till you ski, slalom, barefoot or what ever is at stake. I also like to get the rivalry between siblings, cousins etc working in my favor. I remember a few years back teaching all the kids to slalom... my 7 yr old was dumbfounded when she could slalom on boom and was no where close behind boat. also have to be very careful child doesn't do pullup on boom and bang chin... seen it. I also think we are over thinking this whole thing and a $600 boom is way overkill for teach a kid to ski... In my experience over the past 30 yrs of skiing and taking tons of newbs out... the usually just get up in a few tries :) Kinda on the same level... I see kids at the ice rink use these things that look like old people walkers to hold onto while they skate... my friends kid used one 2 yrs ago... he did last year... and again this year... he still can't balance well... my kids weren't happy when I didn't rent them for them at the time... they have no problem skating, stopping, backward, forward, crossing etc... At some point, you just have to let them do it! In short... if you are on a budget, and never plan on barefooting and learning tricks... save you money... but if you come across one for cheap... pick it up or three of them LOL they are easy to sell. |
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bkhallpass
Grand Poobah Joined: March-29-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4723 |
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You don't need 5 lbs of weight to hold the tails down. HO sells plates that screw on to the ski with the existing fin bolts. 1 plate for little kids skis, 2 plates, for the medium size, and three plates for adult combos. I don't think they weigh two pounds with all six plates mounted. BKH
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Livin' the Dream
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dwouncmd
Gold Member Joined: July-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 919 |
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Having taught lots of really young skiers to ski and having watched the best teach really young skiers, as Quinner says, a pair of parabolic kids skis that can be connected to prevent a the skier from doing a split, along with weight on the tails so the tails sink keeping the ski tips up (I made homemade weights). Finally a boom makes a huge difference. I found a beat up boom for $100. The boom is more stable, pulls the skier up instead of forward, keeps the skier close to the teacher, and allows an easy transition for the the boom to a short rope (handle only). For tiny skiers (less than 3 or 4 years old) a one piece skimmer (solid or inflatable) with the handle attached to the board is a good way to start; these can be pulled by hand or very slowly (5 mph) with a hand on rope from the boat staring from shore.
Having said all that, the most important thing I learned watching April Coble teach (who knows how many thousands she has helped get out of the water for the first time at her ski school) is familiarization on land before getting into the water. She does not use a boom, and gets skiers up long line behind the boat. Getting up on two skies that are connected to prevent the skis from splitting apart, initially, she emphasizes arms straight, knees bent , and looking up at the horizon holding that position until the skis are planing (she has the kids delay standing up by performing a count off of about 5 - 7 seconds). She practices the position and count on land with a rope/handle before putting the kids behind the boat. And, all of her drivers have driven inboards for many hours before pulling beginning skiers. |
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Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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I started looking for booms and ski's on craigslist this weekend, I found a boom in Medford, Oregon, it's out of the question for me if shipping is unavailable, but I'll be checking that this afternoon. As far as booms go, what parts are involved? I am assuming that means a clamp for the pylon, couple of poles and some cable to attach to the front eye. Are there other parts I need to specifically ask about? Will a straight boom work on my 94 or do I need to get a contoured one? A couple of pairs of Kid trainers came up as well, but both are an hour's drive away. I'll keep watching for both items if neither of these works out.
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