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GT-40 Oil Pressure

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the good ag View Drop Down
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    Posted: June-25-2016 at 6:53pm

1997 GT-40

I'm having some interesting oil pressure swings,

    Cold start -   40 right on the dot
    at temp (160 F)
          at idle -   20 ish
          at 1500 rpm or better - 50 -70 ish

replaced the sending unit and everything is the same so I've got something else going on..   I'm also getting the "save the engine" sensor at 3200 rpm kicking in, verified it was the oil sensor by pulling wire and it went away ..    oil pump is not tied to crankshaft from what I understand so why would it have these swings with rpm?

Some background:
Using 10w-40.

Last year I had a failure of the exhaust manifold and ended up with quite a bit of water in the oil (brown milkshake anyone ?? ). I was able to get new headers on, went through about 8-10 oil / filter flushes and the oil looks great now.   I do have a bit of a valve chatter since this time also.    
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8122pbrainard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2016 at 7:18pm
Brian,
I suggest installing a T and a mechanical gauge to confirm the reading on the electric and in fact, I would do that before changing the sender. Test first before throwing parts at the problem.
Originally posted by the good ag the good ag wrote:


   oil pump is not tied to crankshaft from what I understand so why would it have these swings with rpm?    

You are correct that the oil pump is not directly tied to the crank but indirectly it is. The pump is driven by the camshaft and it's RPM does vary!
BTW, your pressures don't seem that out of line except for the 60 to 70 is at the high end


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Gary S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2016 at 7:21pm
While not "tied to the crankshaft" directly,your oil pump does does change rpm with the crank. Most here are using 20w-50 VR1. If you suspect oil pressure problems it's always best to temporarily install a quality mechanical gauge. What oil are you using?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2016 at 9:52pm
You mention a few things that concern me. Low hot oil pressure and a clatter that was not there prior to having water in your oil. and a low oil pressure at RPM warning.
Add these up and I think you may have suffered damage when running with water in the oil.
Hot oil will spill out of loose engine bearings. Cold oil will not. On cold start everything is good but when it all heats up you loose pressure. You can try a thicker oil and hope it helps but this does not sound good to me.
Another less damaging possibility would be the Oil Pump Pressure relief valve may be stuck open letting your pressure bleed off. This would still involve pulling the oil pump out of the engine which means dropping the oil pan for inspection. At that point you would inspect the bearings since the pan is off and check for debris in the oil pan.
Your oil pump is driven by the camshaft and distributor gear and it will vary with RPM.
If you have 20 at idle and 50-70 at RPM you would not have oil related noise in your valve train. It could run at 10 psi at idle with no issue. Most factory low pressure warnings don't get triggered till you have less than 10 PSI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-26-2016 at 9:07am
I'd do what Gary and Pete said.

Put in a temporary high quality press gauge.

Your numbers are a little confusing. Do you mean it's constantly bouncing from 50-70 or was that a generalization that at 2000 rpm it might be 55 and at 3000 rpm it's 65 for example.

Did you replace the sending unit for the oil pressure gauge or was it the sensor for the engine's protective system?

And....what was "normal" before the water in the oil issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the good ag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-26-2016 at 2:31pm
Sorry I was not clear

Oil pressure prior to the water event - rock solid 40 +/- regardless of the rpm, hot / cold

Replaced the pressure gauge sending unit not the engine protection sensor (meant to replace sensor but they shipped me the wrong one)

warm oil pressure at high rpm, I'll watch a little closer but does not seem to change with rpm at 70 ish just as long as I'm not at idle.   

Thank you for the input, I'm really hoping it is not the bearings as I'm not set up to lift motor.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-26-2016 at 3:12pm
I'd be more worried about having a rock steady 40# no matter what the speed or engine temp than the changes you're seeing now.
.
Your pressure numbers seem pretty OK to me.

I'd still DEFINITELY put in a mechanical gauge temporarily and replace the oil press switch for sure.

Don't have a clue what your noise sounds like so no wild guesses about engine damage or not.

Gary's 20w50 or some 15w40 diesel oil would be my oil choice though, for the zinc levels if for no other reason
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-26-2016 at 7:57pm
I'm leaning towards Marks idea.
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

the Oil Pump Pressure relief valve may be stuck open .


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2016 at 10:44am
Well, for only the 3rd time in recent memory, I find myself thinking like Pete.

I saw a shrink those other two times and called for another appointment this morning ASAP

But anyways, doing a search,it seems like a number of people have GT40's that run about 40-45 # under all conditions like yours did originally. The oil pump relief on a GT 40 must be set at 40-45# to do this

I think that to get the numbers you're seeing your relief must not be fully seated properly. It doesn't seem as if it would be fully open or you'd never get 50-70 # at higher RPM.. Piece of crud in the seating surface, stuck partially open etc.

Looser bearing clearances don't seem like they would make your hot high speed pressure go up.

Like MrMcD said, your 20# and 50-70# are OK as long as you don't have any oil related engine noises.

Maybe you could put a video on here so the noises can be heard.

Since you re[placed the manifolds, are you sure you don't have an exhaust gasket leak and tightening the bolts could make it go away?

This exhaust leak just came up recently and the poster put a video or 3 or 4 up for some help and he solved his problem

Maybe your noise could be as easy........maybe not
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1980nautique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2016 at 12:43pm
You might try dumping the 10W 40 and trying the 15W40 Rotella or some quick silver 25W40, as was previously mentioned. I don't believe 10w 40 is a great choice. Also be careful not to overfill, The crank will act like an egg beater and aerate the oil causing weird oil pressure readings and lifter/rocker ticking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2016 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

Well, for only the 3rd time in recent memory, I find myself thinking like Pete. I saw a shrink those other two times and called for another appointment this morning ASAP



Ken,
I suggest making multiple appointments with that doctor!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2016 at 7:16pm
She's cute Pete, and her name's Mallory just like my favorite distributor or is Mallory my favorite distributor because of her?

Only I know the answer to that .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2016 at 11:01pm
"Sorry I was not clear

Oil pressure prior to the water event - rock solid 40 +/- regardless of the rpm, hot / cold

Replaced the pressure gauge sending unit not the engine protection sensor (meant to replace sensor but they shipped me the wrong one)

warm oil pressure at high rpm, I'll watch a little closer but does not seem to change with rpm at 70 ish just as long as I'm not at idle.   

Thank you for the input, I'm really hoping it is not the bearings as I'm not set up to lift motor."
Since the oil pressure changed it sounds like your pressure relief is stuck. As mentioned above it does not take much to stick the piston in a pressure relief valve.
Your oil pressures are not a problem as they currently are, I would run it and hope it pops loose on its own. I would run it a long time before pulling the pan to fix it as long as your pressure stays as is.   This still does not fix the new noise you have though.
Keep us posted.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the good ag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2016 at 7:12am
Thank you for all the input, with the wire lifted on the pressure switch (new one arrived today) I've been able to use the boat over the last 10 days skiing etc.   Things are definitely better.;   Have not changed oil to heavier weight yet but plan on doing so after an upcoming (non = boating) vacation.    

Oil pressure:
cold =   still 40 +/- 5 psig
hot = at idle around 15 = 20 psig
      - at rpm around 70 = 75 psig

valve clatter - only at start up, goes away after warming up and putting some load on motor (pulling skiers)   
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