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1972 SN Promo Project

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Grand Poobah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quinner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 1:50pm
Roger on what Roger said, I converted those drawings to Feet/Inches, Check your email, PDF sent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 4:12pm
In the meantime, someone back me up on this carb kit. The number on the side of the carb is

1087 9636SA

which leads me to this:

First link

Fifth one down says model number 9636A, Mopar linkage, and electric choke. Pretty sure I don't have electric choke but its the closest choice. But that one is no longer available and links me to E-1400.

Scroll 3 down on this page and it suggests the 1400 is for "E-1400 PERFORMER SERIES CARBURETOR - 600 CFM
- STREET LEGAL, ELECTRIC CHOKE -
50-state street legal for all Chevrolet/GMC V8 engines, 1980 and earlier"

Second link


However, at the very bottom of the page is this kit.

KT-5281

I think the KT-5281 is the proper rebuild kit with the addition of two new floats.

FLT-100-94


Would everyone agree?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 5:35pm
'68 is the last year I've seen with some manual chokes sneaking out... Yours is most certainly electric.

Floor height for the seats and stringer height under the mounts are the 2 critical things... Fairly easy to get "close enough", just be sure to take a lot of measurements prior to disassembly. Leaving a lip of the floor behind as a reference (until the stringers are done) is a trick some have used successfully as well.

Lots of options for engine upgrades, but id caution you on biting off more than you can chew too early. The time and money spent getting the hull and structure back in shape will be significant. Those efforts won't be undone by reinstalling a motor with a little rust on it for a season while your back and money tree recover. Having all those projects running concurrently can be expensive and daunting. Resist the urge to tear into everything at once... Break it into chunks if you can!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 6:00pm
Get going on the hull while keeping an eye out for engine parts along the way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rolleronariver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-03-2016 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Lots of options for engine upgrades, but id caution you on biting off more than you can chew too early. The time and money spent getting the hull and structure back in shape will be significant.


True, I'm already about $800 and 10 hours in right now and I'm barely half way done with my stringers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2016 at 12:32am
I hope my optimistic tone hasn't been confused with being overzealous. HAHA. There is NO WAY that I'm going to tackle the engine, floor removal, and stringers all at once. What I'm doing now is coming up with a mental blueprint or gameplan for the next few years. A good portion of that gameplan is estimating finances. I certainly am going to do whatever it takes to get this boat in as close to showroom condition as my budget and skill set allow. The best part is.........there is no deadline. If it takes an extra 6 months to get something right then I'm only out the cost of beer (which is a good problem to have).

I know I'm looking at $1500-2000 for stringers. I know there's a possibility of $2k in engine parts. I know that I could spend 3x times that in the end. Right now my timeline is:

2017 - Stringer removal and replacement
2018 - Engine refurbishment (whatever that means)
2019 - Odds and ends back together and tested before Green Lake

I would LOVE for that timeline to be cut in half but I'm also prepared for it to get extended x2.

Now for the good stuff. I got the carb opened up today and here's what I found



Vid 17


How the He11 do I get that impellor out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2016 at 12:41am
Dude, scrape that stuff out of there and light it on fire. Bet it burns for hours!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skutsch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-04-2016 at 12:43am
on the impeller, I have a couple really small wheel/bearing pullers we can try.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-15-2016 at 2:29am
Tomorrow the engine comes out.

Are there any measurements or considerations I need to take care of before removal?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-15-2016 at 6:38am
Originally posted by Frankenotter Frankenotter wrote:

Tomorrow the engine comes out. Are there any measurements or considerations I need to take care of before removal?


Find a reference point that will position the engine, I used the 4 engine mount studs. Establish a "Datum Point" that you can use to measure to your four reference points. The inside of the transom on each side will work. Then lay a straight edge across the gunnels and measure down to the studs. Record these eight measurements and when you get ready to reinstall the engine you will be able to place it in the exact spot that it came from. You may want to make up an engine cradle to use instead of the wooden blocks that it probably has now.
Keep it as original as YOU want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-15-2016 at 8:48am
Unless the engine mount bolt holes will disappear with engine removal, then you still know where the engine was placed even after its out of the boat. I will caution on taking measurements from the inside of the transom if there is any chance you'll be replacing the wood back there (exhaust and lifting ring supports). You want to reference a datum that will not change.

I would grab the measurement from the trans coupler to the back of the strut body... This will help when it comes time to tune your shaft length (and provide another good engine placement reference point).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-15-2016 at 8:55am
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I would grab the measurement from the trans coupler to the back of the strut body... This will help when it comes time to tune your shaft length (and provide another good engine placement reference point).

Or from the coupling to the log as that is even more of a fixed point than the strut.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-15-2016 at 10:53am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

I would grab the measurement from the trans coupler to the back of the strut body... This will help when it comes time to tune your shaft length (and provide another good engine placement reference point).

Or from the coupling to the log as that is even more of a fixed point than the strut.

The strut is recessed and can't move appreciably unless it's bent. At least in terms of shaft length (not alignment).

Consider that when reinstalling the engine, the log is going to be covered by the log hose and packing gland, it won be easy to confirm the engine is in the same place.

I would measure both.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-15-2016 at 8:26pm
Strut bolt or anything rudder related
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 12:49am
Good stuff gents.

Today we got the cartel together to pull the 340. At first I didn't want to remove the lag bolts holding the rear engine mounts into the stringers. I had grand visions of leaving them to get measurements and instead removing any of the other 3 attach points. Those visions were quickly dashed as I slowly realized that time, corrosion, and geometry were not on my side.

When we took the lag bolts out, she flew like a pig.

A few questions:

1. When the bell housing came apart, it revealed a very rusty flywheel. I know there is no oil or lubrication in here but does this look ok?





I forgot to take a picture of the damper plate but it too is very rusty.

With all the commotion of pulling engines and drinking beer, I didn't get a chance to take any video today. I'll take some soon when I get home from my next work trip.

In the meantime, enjoy this poorly positioned prospective time lapse of the engine coming out of the promo.



Time Lapse

A big thank you to Steve, Ryan, and Hollywood for the help with the project today!!! Cheers gents!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 63 Skier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 1:02am
I don't think a rusty flywheel would bother me, as long as no cracks or warping and no badly worn or missing teeth. A rusty dampner might not function properly, but can be cleaned up. Might be worth replacing if any question on it.

Nice to see the helping hands, looks like you had a good day for it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 1:29am
Yes everything appears to be in good shape dimensionally, just rusty. I would like to make a cradle for the velvet drive to drain the fluid while the weather is relatively warm.

Now that the engine is removed, I'll be turning my attention to the stringers, bottom paint, and gel. I plan to start sanding bottom paint soon. A friend of mine in the sailing world identified the paint as something that wont come off with the normal gel strippers.

Another question:

When attempting the wetsanding process, does one use a power sander or only by hand? Orbital? Will the "wet" clog the orbital?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 7:01am
Chris,
I'm with David on the rust. The only thing I'd suggest is when you put it back together, anti-seize the splines on the trans input shaft.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 11:08am
Originally posted by Frankenotter Frankenotter wrote:


When attempting the wetsanding process, does one use a power sander or only by hand? Orbital? Will the "wet" clog the orbital?


I would only wet sand by hand (gives a more even finish w/o going too deep), use a sanding block if desired. In tight curved areas or where there are angles, a dowel rod wrapped with sandpaper can be used.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 11:21am
Originally posted by relake relake wrote:

Originally posted by Frankenotter Frankenotter wrote:


When attempting the wetsanding process, does one use a power sander or only by hand? Orbital? Will the "wet" clog the orbital?


I would only wet sand by hand (gives a more even finish w/o going too deep), use a sanding block if desired. In tight curved areas or where there are angles, a dowel rod wrapped with sandpaper can be used.

Chris,
I've had great success using a RO sander on the flat surfaces wet. You use a spray bottle of water in one hand and the sander in the other. Just like hand sanding, the water prevents the clogging of the abrasive disks. These micro mesh disks are great A common use for them is solid surface countertop which is very similar to gel. Note you can get them all the way to 1200 grit which is almost buffing!!! On corners where the RO can get aggressive, go by hand as Ray mentioned.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 12:09pm
These come in packs of 100 and are also wet/dry.    800 grit,   I have used them with success. Very reasonably priced.

800 grit discs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Note you can get them all the way to 1200 grit which is almost buffing!!!


Pete, Did I do something wrong??
I only find them down to 1500 grit on this link. (1500 would work if you had the time)
Keep it as original as YOU want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Duane in Indy Duane in Indy wrote:

Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Note you can get them all the way to 1200 grit which is almost buffing!!!


Pete, Did I do something wrong??
I only find them down to 1500 grit on this link. (1500 would work if you had the time)

Duane,
I missed a zero! I should have said 12,000 grit!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 1:51pm
I know that using the electric RO sander has been mentioned it before, but I am not a fan.     I tried it with a Early Bronco I was working on a couple of years ago, and the mess/hazard made the ROI not work for me.    I ruined a sander in half of a job, and was constantly worried about the electrocution hazard.   Yes, it can be done, but I seriously question the safety of it.     There is no way to keep the water and sanding sludge out of the motor and bearings.     If you are going to machine sand, I would suggest that there are air tools made for this purpose, and after ruining an electric sander, I would have been money ahead to try the air version.   just my .02, but I would hate to see an accident.     Nice progress so far!    My flywheel was as rusty if not worse than yours.   I did scuff and paint it before I put it back in, but that was only to try and prevent further corrosion. I don't think the rust hurts anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Dreaming Dreaming wrote:

I seriously question the safety of it.   




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 3:39pm
GFCI's are required in our electrical code, and I have them in the garage where I work, but they are cheap at best, and prone to failure.   I question using them to protect you while doing something that puts you directly in harms way... yes I've done it based on the recommendations of this forum, but I would buy the proper tool next time instead of taking the risk, The right tool doesn't cost much compared to the price of an emergency room visit, or a funeral.
even more to my point, the right tool doesn't cost more than the two sanders I had to buy (one to start the project, and one to replace the one I broke in the process)
While I won't stand in your way if you choose to use the electric, I think it is good to provide an alternative opinion when safety is a concern.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 4:45pm
Not everyone has a massive compressor though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 10:36pm
Mirka® DEROS - the new electric random orbital sander. The first electric machine ever with a brushless motor and no external power supply.
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frankenotter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-16-2016 at 11:21pm
Thanks for the awesome replies guys!

I think I'll start by hand at first when it comes to trying to remove the bottom paint. I want to see how it reacts to the sandpaper. If it's going well then I might switch to the random orbital and give it a try.

Now the $2 million question.

Is there a way to preserve the original patina of the lettering while wet sanding the gel? I think Terry in Madison was going to try something with tape. I would really love to preserve the original black lettering. The black stripe will probably have to be redone on account of a lot of chipping
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duane in Indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-17-2016 at 6:17am
I feel that you will spend more time and effort trying to work around the letters than it is worth. Yours are simple letters to have a mask built for and repaint them after you wet sand and buff the sides.   Another thing, you will be time ahead if you flip the boat over to redo the bottom. Otherwise your arms are going to look like Hercules when you are done. I would start with 320 or 400 on the black and just sand until the orange starts to come thru then switch to 800 and 1200. Buff after that. Be prepared, as this is no minor task
Review the stringer articles that have been written on CCF as you can really get in trouble if you don't get things back to stock dimensions. Others may have had success doing it different ways, this is only one suggestion. Sure others will chime in also. Good luck.. Duane
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