Starting 87 SN Floor/Stinger Repair |
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M3Fan
Grand Poobah Joined: October-22-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3185 |
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Kudos on the olympic weights- nice to see the "real deal" weight set at a residence.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Wiped with acetone. Grinded and sanded the bilge and ends of the brace. Applied resin and epoxy mat in the channels on the stringers. Applied resin on the brace. Set it in place and put weight on top to hold it down. Added some epoxy mat to the ends and wiped most of the run off in the bilge. Just going to have fill and sand when it all cures. |
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Remembered this advice from David F. Thought it would be a good idea to go back and make sure the floor is going to stay attached to the stringers. Used a countersink drill bit to make the hole. Then covered the threads of the #10 x 2" long stainless steel screws with epoxy resin. Screwed them down through the front of the floor onto the main stringers. Then back filled the holes with epoxy resin. Should do the trick. |
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sterlingmermaid
Groupie Joined: January-18-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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How did you get the old stringers out? Cut at the bottom or at the top and pry them out???
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tk
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sterlingmermaid
Groupie Joined: January-18-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Hi Can you tell me how you got the stringers out? Did you cut them at the bottom or did you cut the top of the gla$$ off and pry them out? What kind of saw did you use?
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tk
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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I do not think it is possible to cut the top off and pry the stringers out. The bottom of the stringers are bedded into the hull very tightly, despite the gla$$ being loose or damaged in other places. You may cut the top and chisel the stringer out in pieces if you wish to preserve the shell of the stringer in order to fill it with some pourable material. This is the saw I used. It is air powered. Very fast, very easy to work with. I got it at an auto parts store. It takes thin blades similar to a jig saw. So long as the blades are good it pulls right through the material. There is a pocket at the base of the stringer where the saw blade is only cutting gla$$. You can feel it when you make your cut. If you are cutting wood it will have a lot of resistance. When you are just cutting the gla$$ it pulls through easily. That is the sweet spot you need to find to cut the stringer out in one piece. Now if you don't have rot at the base of the stringers it would be much easier and many times less expensive to repair a section of the stringer. Simply mark a line parallel to the hull an inch or more above the hull. Then use a saws all or similar cutting tool to cut along that mark. Then you replace the damaged wood that you cut out. Just put down a bed of epoxy resin with two layers of epoxy mat, saturate the bonding edges of the new piece, install, weight down, then gla$$. This way, you don't have to totally remove the stringer. You don't have to gla$$ it in from the bottom up either. |
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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These are the old stringers from my boat. The first one I tried to cut it where I thought was the bottom. Wasn't until I made a mess of the thing and left about 1/4" bedded into the hull that I understood what was meant by "bedding". When you look at the hull of your boat the gla$$ seems to flow smoothly up the side of the stringer. The stringer is sitting on top of the hull and is not bonded at all. At the exact point where the angle forms at the base of the stringer is where the stringer is bedded. There is as much as 1/4" thick in gla$$ and resin here. But, at about a 45 degree downward angle the tip of the blade will slip right under the stringer. It is more difficult to explain than it is to cut the stupid thing. If you use a saw similar to mine you will be able to FEEL the cut. When you are not cutting into the stringer the cut will feel easy. When you are cutting into the wood it will have a lot of resistance and be slow. Also, you have to cut each side of the stringer at the base. When you are done, the stringer comes out. Where the stringer used to be there is a channel. It is very messy and difficult to grind this channel down. That's why if the stringers aren't totalled, I would just cut out a section and replace it. |
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sterlingmermaid
Groupie Joined: January-18-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Thanks for the info, now it is starting to make more sense. Do you know if the transom has any wood in it at all? where the stringers attach to it? I just took my swim platform off and the bolts seem to go into soft wood and one bolt seems to line up with the stinger but they are too far apart for both to make it into the 1 1/2in wide stringer. I will start taking pictures and posting my progress if the boat doesn't sekk first
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tk
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sterlingmermaid
Groupie Joined: January-18-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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Do you know where I can find a template for the wood part of the floor where the two seats get screwed into? mine was too far gone to make a template from and the foam is already removed. I should have taken an impression of the foam before I removed it but I didn't
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tk
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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A template of this section is not necessary. The wood will run from the front of the motorbox to the back of the battery box (3-4' deep). It comes within 6" of the side of the hull, but it doesnt have to be a precise fit. The only reason CC used wood in this area instead of gla$$ over foam is because it spans the width of the bilge. There is nothing supporting the floor between the stringers. |
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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This is the piece I used. Like TRBenj said you really don't need a template. Toward the front of the stringers you will notice a notch where the last 18" or so of the stringers are taller than the area before them. Starting from that notch, going backward toward the stern is where the piece is supposed to fit. It goes back just beyond the ski pylon. You may have enough floor left to reconstruct that dimension. In my case it was 35" long. Then, it is as wide as you choose. It must span the stringers. That is the only requirement. In my case it goes to within 2" to 4" of the side of the hull on each side. The transom is primarily gla$$. There are several places that have a piece of plywood laminated onto the gla$$ and covered with gla$$. With the fuel cell removed you can easily identify the places where there is a plywood backing laminated onto the transom. |
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sterlingmermaid
Groupie Joined: January-18-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 58 |
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thanks for all your help
Terrence |
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tk
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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Usually, when plywood is laminated into the composite, it is used for mounting a piece of hardware, so the screw does not penetrate the hull. The plywood is not structural in these circumstances.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Trying a new technique in the dungeon. Once the cross support was bonded into place with gla$$ and epoxy resin I washed with acetone, sanded, then washed with soap and water and used Bondo body filler. It bonded just fine and gave a great finish. |
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Bremsen
Senior Member Joined: June-26-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Is that it for the fibergla$$ work?? You have to be getting excited/relieved that at least that part is over (or nearly over).
I can't wait to see it all come together now. |
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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I suppose at this point I could put in some carpet and put the boat back together. It would be much better than when I started. But I am slowly working away at the bilge. I figure I worked so hard to get to this point that I would hate to not accomplish all of my goals. Call it stubburn, needless, a waste of time, or just plain stupid on my part but I am working with small areas at a time applying bondo, sanding, reapplying, sanding, etc. I am determined to make the bilge "shiny and smooth". Even when I finish in the bilge I will not put the boat back together just yet. I am working on a little something near the front seat (this time I'll take pictures as I go but finish before posting anything). And, I'll be starting the gelcoat repair from inside out. It is frustrating because I am close but it just doesn't seem to end. |
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leo0648
Senior Member Joined: January-30-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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How do you plan on realigning the engine?
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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I have been reconditioning the engine and transmission mounts. Specifically, I have removed the old paint and rust. I will repaint them being careful not to get paint where it should not have paint. I bought the OJ Dripless system for the driveshaft. My plan follows: 1: Reinstall the strut 2: Intall the driveshaft and OJ dripless seal 3: Reset the engine and tranny mounts to what they were when I pulled the engine 4: Install the engine and transmission 5: Adjust the mounts until the variance between the tranny and driveshaft is less than .003" (.000" is my goal) I will keep the engine crane attached to provide lift to make adjustments on the mounts. Immediately after the first run I will recheck the alignment while the boat is on the water. |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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ski bum, you foaming? if you do cut the extra and throw it into the next compartment, alot of guys throw it away, it mixes well with the new foam. I see you've been reading .000, also dont leave the engine hoist attached, it's easy to move the mounts on thier own. it will move when you let the weight off and screw up your alignment,
Your doing a cla$$ A number 1 job on that hull, Eric |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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I repainted engine mounts before and after several years they started to rust again. My thoughts, if or when I do it again would be to powder coat the mounts. Special instructions would have to be given to the powder coater to keep the coating off the pin and out of the socket.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Currently the bilge is a mix of epoxy/3M gla$$ bubbles filler and Bondo. I have a few difficult areas left to smooth. The instructions on the Bilge paint indicate that when applying to epoxy first contact the Interlux technical a$$istance. Do you know what I need to do to prepare the surface for the Interlux bilge paint? |
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Progress with the filling and sanding is very slow. Close to finished with that part of the project. Just need to fine tune some small areas where no sander will go. Old school sand paper wrapped around a piece of stock. Slow and tedious work. Good news is that when I figure out how to apply the bilge paint over epoxy I should have this part of the job finished by the end of the weekend. |
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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If anybody is interested in using Interlux Bilgcote paint on their boats I contacted the Technical Support at Interlux for more information. In my case I will be applying Bilgcote over epoxy. These are the steps recommended by Interlux:
1: Sand 180 grit sandpaper 2: Scrub with scotchbrite pad, soap and water 3: Wipe with Interlux 202 solvent 4: Apply Interlux Epoxy Primecote 5: Apply Bilgcote So I ordered soem 202 and primecoate today. |
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David F
Platinum Member Joined: June-11-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1770 |
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Basically they told you to get rid of amine blush and then apply a primer. Primers are always a good idea. However, I would add a step to their recommendations: Do steps 2 & 3 before you do steps 1-4 as listed above. In other words, avoiding sanding in the amine blush. Personally, I would sand with 120 grit paper for more tooth.
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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I agree with David but skip the soap.The amine blush will be removed with clean water and a scotchbrite pad.The soap will only add another contaminant that has to be completely removed for a good bond.
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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Thanks for the advice. I have already been sanding, sanding some more, sanding again, and sanding more in the bilge. Immediately before applying the finishes though, I'll follow this order:
1: scrub with clean water and scotchbrite pads 2: wipe with interlux 202 3: sand again with 120 grit 4: scrub with clean water and scotchbrite pads 5: wipe with interlux 202 6: apply the primecote Does that sound like something that would work? |
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SkiBum
Gold Member Joined: November-17-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 587 |
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David F or Farmer,
Maybe one of you can help me with this riddle: I added white pigment to the epoxy resin. Mixed in 3M gla$$ bubbles and aerosil cabosil to make a filling compound in the bilge that would be white in color. However, once dry, the stuff turned yellow. I sand it and white appears. Then, it turns yellow. What the hell is going on around here? I have scrubbed with water, water and soap, and acetone; several times. Did I get hit with the natorious amine blush, then repeatedly sanded it back into the finish? Does that mean the places where I have been using Bondo that the Bondo only appears to be bonding properly but will fall apart in the future? |
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farmer
Senior Member Joined: July-23-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Bill, I forgot to mention that you have to dry the surface with paper towels or the dissolved amine blush will remain after the surface dries.
As for the tint, all I could find in the references I have is that the tint is just meant as a base that has to be coated over with color.If you think you may have sanded amine blush into the surface,try wet-sanding,then rinse and dry with paper towels. Sorry I couldn't be of any more help. Farmer |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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I had my brother mix some foam for me, he mixed 2 half gallons and by the time he handed it to me it was boiling over, he mis understood me, what a frickin mess this stuff made. this does not come off of your skin
eric |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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boat dr
Grand Poobah Joined: June-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4245 |
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Eric, Down here they sell these things called disposable gloves,will send ya some.Nothing will remove that U/Formadahide foam, will take a week to wear it off,and the wife thinks ya did not wash your hands to boot,yuk.
A little goes a long way as to the foam,but you know that,now boat dr Whats the temp there,65 here today. break out the shorts and tee shirts. SPRING IS COMING, the martins and robins are here............. |
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