Boat dies when i put in gear |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | ||
LisaO
Newbie Joined: August-22-2017 Location: Marietta Status: Offline Points: 33 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: August-22-2017 at 12:42am |
|
Hi, I just got new plugs and wires put om my 1974 Skier.The boat sounds good until i put it into gear in the water...then it dies. The firing order on the engine plate does not seem to work (anyone know the firing order?). Can anyone help please? My boat is a 1974 Ford 302 engine.
|
||
Thanks! Lisa
|
||
Nautiquehunter
Platinum Member Joined: December-31-2008 Location: Lake Lanier GA Status: Offline Points: 1010 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
What state are you in?
|
||
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Do different states have different firing orders?
'74 was pretty close to the time they changed from the 302 to the 351 FO, what does the plate say? A pic showing the marinization would help. What size/type spark plugs does it take (5/8" or 13/16" wrench?)? The 2 FO's are 18456273 (351) and 18736245 (289/early 302). |
||
fgroce
Senior Member Joined: July-05-2016 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 350 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
LisaO welcome to the forum, what lake do you go to? How about posting some pictures of your boat. Have you been running the boat all summer and just started running bad? Or just getting it wet for the first time. A lot of guys on the forum are a lot of help with keeping the classic boats running. What lake do yall go to? Good luck on getting the problem solved.
|
||
FGroce
88 Ski Nautique For 28 years Now 2002 Ski Nautique |
||
LisaO
Newbie Joined: August-22-2017 Location: Marietta Status: Offline Points: 33 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Hi! Thanks for everyone's responses. I am in GA and I usually boat on Lake Lanier or Allatoona. I have had my boat for about 12 yrs and let her sit last year. Won't do that again. The firing order I used is one of the ones that you suggested. 18736245. But when I put in gear boat dies. (Someone described it as putting load on) can find out plug sizes etc later when I get home. I am not sure what marinization means tho. Thank you!
|
||
Thanks! Lisa
|
||
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Pictures
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The company that took an automotive engine and added marine components so it can be used in a boat. It's the reason Tim asked for pictures. |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Lisa,
I'd like to ask why the plugs and wires were changed. Was the engine running poorly before? Did you replace any other parts? |
||
villthepill
Newbie Joined: May-12-2016 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 9 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Sounds like your carburetor idle mixture isnt adjusted properly. Put a vacuum guage on full manifold vacuum and adjust the 2 screws equally 1/8th turn at a time at idle. You want to achieve the highest vacuum reading. Google adjusting idle mixture screws and it will give you a step by step on how to do it.
|
||
tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Let's make sure the firing order is correct. Then, let's insure the ignition timing is correct before we move past the "last change". Petes right--why was the work done anyways? Was it sputtering before the wires and plugs? Maybe that ancient gas is simply not up to snuff any longer? Is it straight gas down there or do they make you use corn gas (10% ethanol)? Did it have stabil or other preservative in it when it was laid up a few years back?
Timing could be off if the plugs were put one position back or forwards--even if in the correct order. Look where the light's best. That's what my engine mechanic instructor always told me. |
||
Morfoot
Grand Poobah Joined: February-06-2004 Location: South Lanier Status: Offline Points: 5320 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Welcome Lisa and yes Pictures of the engine would help determining what Motor you have and what the firing order should be. What was done to the engine since you last ran it? A little more details on what's going on will help us help you fix the issue. There are several of us CCFans that play on Lanier and try to hang out with each other on the weekends. Usually around Bald Ridge Marina. |
||
"Morfoot; He can ski. He can wakeboard.He can cook chicken.He can create his own self-named beverage, & can also apparently fly. A man of many talents."72 Mustang "Kermit",88 SN Miss Scarlett, 99 SN "Sherman"
|
||
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11050 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Since she says the engine sounds good, I figure she has the right firing order now because if she had the other one it would sound anything but good and struggle to run at all.
On to the carburetor like Villthepill suggested. Maybe needs adjustments or cleaning or a rebuild after sitting unused for a year and a half or so. |
||
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I'm not so sure... I've seen engines idle remarkably smoothly on 7, 6 or even 4cyl. They don't take a load very well though. Using the opposite FO will get you 4/8.
|
||
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11050 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Nice thing about having old Ford 351 plow trucks and an old 351RR boat hanging around that I can do "experiments' on.
Picked on the boat today and went out and swapped the wires around to go from the 351RR firing order to the early 302 firing order. Turned the key and it did a lot of cranking, some sputtering and almost sounded like maybe it might almost think about starting,. Swapped back to the right firing order and it fired right up and ran normally. That poor old boat, the things I do to it EDIT see a few posts down, it runs on 4 if some dummy remembers to hook up the coil wire |
||
tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Keno you're a true lifelong learner. Who else would perform that experiment and report back!
|
||
tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I've seen 4 cylinders run fine on 3 until you load them up. Could be a bad wire--always look at what you last did before it ran badly. |
||
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11050 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
And on top of that, I get to report back that my experiment was done over again cause it was bugging me that it didn't start at all. So now it's time to eat some crow and say it ran pretty good on the early firing order like Tim thought A little voice in my head told me that I may have tried it the first time with the coil wire disconnected, so back out to the boat, rearrange wires, make sure the coil wire is connected. Double check everything turn the key and ......... It fired up and sounded pretty good, low idle a little lumpy but not bad. It actually went into gear and kept running, but I didn't go for a ride to see how a v4 would run. Thanks for questioning my answer and providing my entertainment for a little while this morning Tim |
||
TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Ha nicely done Ken, that matches my experience. Can't say I've tried running on 4 under load but 6 will get you up on plane pretty easily. 4cyl sounds remarkably good on the hose (no load).
|
||
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11050 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
It sounded remarkably good in the water, much better than I expected putt putting around a little above idle speed
I didn't try to get on plane and go for a ride though. It was smooth enough to fool you into thinking the firing order was OK at idle with no load.. |
||
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11050 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Time for part 3 of this experiment.
One of those other voices in my head said "what's wrong with you, not seeing how it takes some load? " So..... off to the boat, swap wires around again, fire it up, same slowish idle, bump it into gear and it would stay idling and moving. Give it any gas at all after that and it would backfire and stall every time. Probably wiped out a power valve with all those backfires but did prove to myself anyways that, yes it will idle but it won't take any load with the swapped firing order Swapped it back to normal, and drove back to the dock.with no problems. |
||
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Thats what happened to mine years ago when I rebuilt the HM Ken. No Correct Craft Fan then all on my own. Bought a Crane RR cam they put the wrong firing order on the cam card. Started up fine but when I tried to run it at cam break in rpm it ran lousy. Finally pulled the valve covers and watched the valves. Lucky I didn't ruin the cam.
|
||
MourningWood
Gold Member Joined: June-13-2014 Location: NorCal Status: Offline Points: 915 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
My question to the OP is the one Pete asked earlier.....how did it run before the plug/wire change?
'Cuz if ran good, then was worked on, and now doesn't run good, chances are very, very good that an error was made in the work done. |
||
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Keno that is impressive commitment and follow up.
I put you up for forum member of the year! Nice follow up. I hope your power valve survived. Mark |
||
LisaO
Newbie Joined: August-22-2017 Location: Marietta Status: Offline Points: 33 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Hi, thanks to everyone for all your help. The boat did run well before the plugs/wires were changed. Problem is that they did not make note of old FO UGG! It was suggested that I change them because they had some hairline splits (damage) to them. I did drain out old fuel and put in new. I have to add lead to the fuel tank.
|
||
Thanks! Lisa
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Lisa,
Who is "they"? A supposed mechanic? |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
NO!! The lead "substitute" is a scam with a very high mark up that marinas love to push! Lead did add some lubrication that did save wear on valve faces and valve seats but not much. When it's time for a valve job, that's when hardened seats can be installed. If the "mechanic" pushing the substitute says any more about it, ask him if he remembers white gas or in some areas it was called marine gas. Guess what, it was straight run gas with absolutely NO additives and the old engines with NO hardened valve seats ran fantastic on the stuff!!! |
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Are the pictures coming so we can ID the marinizer of the engine and help with the FO?
|
||
LisaO
Newbie Joined: August-22-2017 Location: Marietta Status: Offline Points: 33 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
The guy who sold me the boat said I had to add lead. Hmm could have saved a LOT of money. The mechanic that suggested wire changes was auto mechanic. I uploaded some pics but can't seem to get em on my profile yet..do they have to be approved first?
|
||
Thanks! Lisa
|
||
Dreaming
Platinum Member Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Lisa - the profile pictures do need to be approved, but you can upload photos to the thread by using the post reply button and clicking on the tree icon. you will need to save the photo in a size that is small enough to go on the server, i am not sure what size that is anymore, but if you can save it to the "email" setting, that is small enough. there is another way to load pictures, but it'snot as easy to explain. btw, the server keeps track of the photos you have already loaded and requires that you use non duplicated names for each one.
|
||
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Lisa,
Are you trying to post pictures from a mobile device? If so, it doesn't work very well. Most will email a picture to themselves and then post it from their home computer. Sorry about the seller being misinformed and the "mechanic" who has problems with FO's! |
||
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |