Correct prop size? |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21142 |
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Well v-drives (wakeboard boats) do (mostly) run 1-1/8" shafts, yes... but so do some cc dd's- most notably the python boats. The 13.5x16 (1-1/8") props work great as weighted/pulling props on those, the 13.5x17.5 versions are good all around props.
I run a 3-blade (1442) on my 1.23 NWZ and generally prefer it to the 4-blade (422) that I use as a backup. The 470 is still here on the shelf, the 1868 and 654 were not well suited for how i use the boat. The 668 and oj 13x15.5 XMP work good on the 6L 196, and have heard they're good options on things like the gt40 176, repowered (6L) Bfn's, etc. My NWZ couldn't pull either 5k rpm, which is about where it wants to turn. The 1490 may be an alternative for some of those applications, as would the new 3098 3-blade. |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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If you guys are curious what Delta had to say for our application:
"Engineering came back with the following reply: If they are pulling loads (show ski teams, multiple skiers) such that they need a little extra power/torque, then I’d say Acme # 2160 --- 13.50 X 13.75 VR4B 1.00 .105Cup Otherwise, I’d say # 1792 --- 13.50 X 14.25 VR4B 1.00 .105Cup However, if they are getting a true 5000 RPM WOT on that GT 40 Engine with a good, new-like 1442, then it appears to me that the 1490 wouldn’t be out of the question. Nevertheless, I still think the 2160 or 1792 is probably the better fit." Both props were not on my radar but..........might have to give one a shot |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21142 |
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Those 2 props would allow the gt40 to spin up past 5500rpm, and probably scrub ~3mph. (This is assuming there is no rev limiter on the gt40, I have heard conflicting info on this). That was my experience with the similar 1868. Not good choices for all around use, but good for big loads.
Delta's advice in the past has been mildly interesting... be aware that they don't actually test many (any?) of the props themselves. Their data is collected from customers, with wildly ranging applications (hulls, loads, engines) in varying state of tunes (accurate tachs and gps verified speeds, I'm sure)... so consider the accuracy of the information vs what you typically get on this website... Even Acme's advice hasn't been spot on as of late. |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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You're right Tim...I was surprised they didn't just give the ole 422 tip and call it good.
You think those will run that high on the tach and lose top end? our ski friends have a 2007 206 with the GM 330hp and they run a 1598 13x14 0.080 cup 3 blade for pulling show ski stuff and that thing still runs like 50mph. Maybe just a super fast hull I guess, and it could be running 6500 on the tach I dunno lol I'm not sure what to go with, for the normal dude though 422 all the way. I tell all my buddies just go 422 and call it a day, you'll love it but I'd like to stay with a bigger fan. |
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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I dont know why Delta would reccomend these props they are not well suited for ski applications...especislly if your alreaduy to high in rpm....agsin as someone pointed out it is all dependsnt on application if you are just skiing, not adding a bunch of weight on a DD SN (I dont know what a NWZ is) then a 422, 654, 668 is the best Option.... call Correct Craft!!! they have done all the testing..... if your adding weight then maybe a 1475 |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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Rob, it's much more fun talking about it than it is doing and being done with it. Just go with it would ya? hahaha
Ok, I'll hush up. Will post what I decide on and share the data after. |
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PROPGUY
Newbie Joined: November-22-2016 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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I guess...lol..... im a pretty cut n dry guy...Well I hope my input helped. If you need a prop or repair let me know all I do is inboard props.... we do all the CC factory work.
Rob American Propeller |
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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WOW .... I really opened a big can of worms here didn't I LOL!
My experience on other (boating) forums is there are several key areas that can spark quite a debate from just one simple question. This is one of them. Perhaps I'll gravitate to the watersports section next and ask everyone's opinion on the best water ski HA HA HA ! |
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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mdvalant
Grand Poobah Joined: May-06-2009 Location: Bellevue, IA Status: Offline Points: 2059 |
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lol I just love talking about props and hearing what each one does different for everyone.
Tim always has great prop advice, along with many others here so it's fun to see what everyone thinks about different applications etc. No worms! All good! at least for me anyways! |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21142 |
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I suspect Correct craft hasn't done all the testing on the older hulls, acme props weren't available until 2001 or so. The NWZ in question was out of production 5+ years before that.
That 206 excal isn't going to run any better than 47 (assuming it has the gate up) even with a perfectly matched prop. The gauges are lying. That is almost certainly going to have a rev limiter which will hold down the revs and speed with the shorter 13x14. Even if it didn't, dropping 1.5"+ in pitch is going to result in nearly 600rpm higher revs. It was likely turning in he 4900 neighborhood with the stock 422 so yes, 5500rpm is going to be in the ballpark. That is well past the peak power (5k ish) point so yes, the boat will slow down. 3mph is what I saw with similar numbers on my NWZ, I can't imagine they're that far off with such a similar application. I bet it's not running any better than 44 if you put a gps on it. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
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I like the 1442 on my '95 ski w/GT-40 all the pull you will ever need and mine tops out at 49.6 gps @ 5200
PS. I'm wondering if I would throw 1 or 2 of Quinner's girl friends in the back, if that would get the nose up enough to get 50 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Rob, What prop manufacturers do you handle? |
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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Well, and unexpected update: Was talking at the job today about the boat and another of the subs overheard the conversation about me wanting a different prop. Turns out he's got a SN on a lift at Table Rock Lake and has 4 or 5 different props for it that he's tried out over the years. He said he's been thinking he needs to get rid of a couple, just never gotten around to it. He's headed to the lake this weekend and says he'll bring 2 or 3 back for me to try, if I'd like. Ummm..... Yes. Yes Please.
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Joseph,
When you get the props, check with us before you swap and try any of them out. We may be able to save you the trouble and time with any of the swaps. Do you have a prop puller? Also lapping compound the lap the prop taper to the shaft taper? |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Proper prop install Sorry about the pictures!! Damn photobucket and no more 3rd party hosting!!
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3645 |
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I see 2 of you like the 1422 3 blade on NWZ hulls. Any noise issues?
I like your top speeds, how is the 33 mph Rpm if you don't mind and is the hole shot still good? Tim I think you have an extra 50+ HP, what do you have Gun Driver? My 95 is bone stock rated 310 hp. The 224 I run impresses me for the hole shot but I can only compare to the OJ factory prop and the 4 blade OJ 14 16. |
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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Don't have the puller yet, but I do have one on order. As for the rest, that's certainly news to me - never knew there was a "process" to putting on a new prop with these. I really appreciate the information Pete... you probably saved me losing a prop in the near future. So since I'm new to this, where does one get the blue and lapping compound? |
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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For lapping, get some valve grinding compound. Same stuff and available at auto supplies. The blue is optional and really only a good indicator of how well the tapers fit together. It's not used by tool makers that much anymore so you can get it at industrial on line supplies like McMaster Carr.
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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Well my boat is 22 years old this year and let's just say the previous owners weren't as particular with it's care as I would have been. By the looks of it the prop that is on it is not only the original, but has likely never been off the boat. My guess is that even with a puller it may be a fight to get it off. As such, the blue may be a wise investment.
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3645 |
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To remove my very tight propeller I used the puller, tightened it just as tight as I could and the prop did not pop off. I then took a 2 lb ball pen hammer and gave the puller nut one good smack. Did not pop.
Next I took a 1 1/8 inch open end wrench, slid it down the prop shaft till it rested against my prop on the engine side of the prop. I smacked the wrench as hard as I could so it banged down on my prop. It popped off. Hitting my wrench avoided denting my prop. They are not always easy. When I first bought my boat it had issues to fix. When I pulled the first prop off I just removed the nut and slid off the prop. It was not seated at all. It was also running on a bent prop shaft so maintenance was not their priority. |
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gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 943 |
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I'm a bit worried about mine as there is a fair amount of vibration. Prop at least looks fine, but being an older OJ cast, I've heard stories of some of them being quite out of balance. I'll need to check the prop shaft for alignment as well as a bend. |
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JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
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Don't beat on the prop with a hammer or wrench and hammer!!!! Just took my 540 off for a fellow CCF to try, it has been on for several years.
Put the puller on stopped prop from spinning with a block of wood between prop and trailer. Cranked prop puller on nice and tight, then took a propane torch (map gas works a little faster) heat the hub evenly and wait for the BANG and off she pops. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3645 |
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Keep a nut on the shaft but loose or the prop hits the floor when it pops. Did that once. One is enough. The heat option sounds like a easy trick.
If I was not clear, hit the wrench not the prop. That is why the wrench was used. It did work and left no evidence of this use. One good smack, I think the vibration of the hit pops it. A bad hit could obviously turn a good prop into junk. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4117 |
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Plus every time you smack it, is like using a slide hammer on the transmission output shaft. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Acme's prop pulling instructions state to hit the puller bolt!!
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Use one of these and like Pete said " hit the prop puller bolt"
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Duane, I didn't say it, Acme states it in their pulling instructions.
Just as Paul stated, hitting the puller bolt still whacks the trans output bearing via it's output shaft. |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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"I" don't feel that a sharp rap on the bolt will transfer enough energy to damage the output bearing. jmo
So what method do you approve of and use?? |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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The risk is yours with the hammer but, you are also great at trans rebuilds. Yes, I have used the whack with the hammer but have always thought about that thrust bearing in the trans. Would you take the spindle in your Bridgeport apart with a hammer and then reuse the same bearings? I have used the heat method and it works.
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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I would hate to guess how many thousand or maybe hundred thousand times I have rapped the draw bar with the wrench to remove a collet from the spindle (original bearings) No other way to get it loose. I guess some common sense is required when using the hammer method. One could always take the coupler on the shaft loose from the trans coupler if there was enough concern. |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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