"Blown" Ford 351 |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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I hope it works perfectly and the rest of the block is ok and you use it for years with that patch ha.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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Let's get some pressure on that patch and see how it and the rest of the engine are doing
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Thanks for the poz vibes. Scraping the old gasket was more of a P.I.T.A. then building the patch. I ordered a new gasket set and had it sent to my other spot so I wouldn't be able to test the boat till Sunday. But, I cant wait. Going to Oreilly now and buy another one. More in a few hours..... oh, the patch is JB marine epoxy stick. I pressed a lip in all around the inside perimeter hopefully holding it in place. The stuff has more strength than 20psi which I believe is the pressure in the water jacket. 900 degrees max temp load. I won't be surprised if it doesn't hold. I just wanted to try something before just giving up without any attempt. I can be defeated, but I don't give up.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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MourningWood
Gold Member Joined: June-13-2014 Location: NorCal Status: Offline Points: 915 |
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Sent you a PM...
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stepper459
Senior Member Joined: June-17-2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 349 |
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Sounds like a great experiment. You really appear to have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. I can't wait to see what happens... A few years back I bought an old Supra for about $1,000 because the engine was making a milkshake after the owner "thought he winterized it right...." but it turned out, the only crack was a tiny one in the intake manifold exactly under the gasket. He was using a garden hose hooked up to the boat to run it on the trailer, and the extra pressure of the house water system must have been enough to break the seal. I'm pretty sure that engine is still running, in a friend's '86 Nautique. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21182 |
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I don’t see the evidence of how you suspect the Water got in the Oil? That big external hole wouldn’t do it, obviously. Interesting project but I still think the block is junk- Water is coming in from skmewhere that hasn’t been addressed yet... should have filled it with concrete! |
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fgroce
Senior Member Joined: July-05-2016 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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Just a thought, before you turn the key, Right now you very well could have a good crank, rods, cam for a Reverse rotation engine. You run the motor and fill it up with water while it is running you may kill it off. I think prudence would be to save the good parts and use on a new block. I do believe that you will have more than that one hole in the block. Good luck.
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FGroce
88 Ski Nautique For 28 years Now 2002 Ski Nautique |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I'm sure he's not going to run it that long and hopefully not under a heavy load,he should be fine. It's antifreeze that will tear up bearings
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Mr. TRBenj, you're concrete comments are not welcome or amusing, thanks. So I got the whole thing back together and kicked it over and it ran for a few seconds at a time, then the carburetor caught on fire. So tomorrow I'm gonna check it out for stuck floats etc. Last time it ran for the same amount of time and water was pouring out of the spot where the hole was. It didn't just now but I know that's not the big test. Thanks for the constructive comments.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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JoeinNY
Grand Poobah Joined: October-19-2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5698 |
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Carb likely flooding and timing or firing order off - keep the fire extinguisher handy and try not to die but cranking it over again will usually put out the fire. The flame arrestor wont hurt either.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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I don't know what's more exciting, the adventures of William or the World Series.
Must be this since I'm on the computer, sorta' half watching the game Go William go |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3748 |
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Tim's comments about concrete are not an insult. He is telling you what many racers do with very high performance blocks. My cousin is a drag racer with National records, When he built his stroked 454 for his Motor Home he installed Block Rock in the lower part of the block exactly as Tim is telling you to do.
The 496 he built that is making well over 600 pounds of torque and is used in the Motor Home which he also tows with, it is still plugging along just fine 20 years later with the block rock in it. Some racers believe it adds structure and eliminates some flex in the cylinder walls. I do not know how much you could use, there is a limit, cooling is certainly needed around your cylinders but most of the heat is created right up top not in the lower bore. A boat with an unlimited supply of cool water supply could probably run fine with more block rock than any other application so Tim was giving you an option that very well might work. Now that your patch is in there you could fill with block rock and it wont leak out! The down side, Every shop I knew of that installed that stuff did it on an engine stand where they could flow it in to one bank at a time and tilt the block so it flowed out level to the cylinder heads and cured. Then they do the other side.. Can't do that in the boat too easy and the heads would have to be off. Might be able to flow it in through the Freeze Plug holes for your purpose. Tilt the entire trailer if you have to. I hope your patch works as is, that would be pretty cool but the odds are pretty high against it. A lot of words here but needed as Tim helps many people many times in this forum with solid good advice. |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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More on block filler. Read the testimonials
HardBlok |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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I learned something new as well. I never heard of the stuff. I wonder how hot they let them run?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mark, I happen to agree with William. He's not building a high performance race engine and Tim said "filled with concrete" and not Hard Blok. |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Did you read the circle track racers testimonial??? |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Yes, but he did not say anything about temps. Why wouldn't they run hotter?
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Duane, I want you to take that beautiful engine you built, Hard Blok it, run the boat as if you are on a circle track for a summer and then get back to us with results. |
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Duane in Indy
Platinum Member Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Pete, in your old age you have mistaken me for KEN He is the only one that does emperical testing here . Per their site: "Order the TALL FILL Unit for 350 cubic inch and larger blocks. Order the SHORT FILL Unit for circle track and street rod applications." Personally I don't endorse or recommend the stuff. Probably more 392" Hemi blocks left laying around with it in it than not. edit: thanks for the accolades on my engine |
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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It does sound like it has potential for a repair for some cracked blocks.
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Well, I just watched a Moroso video on the hard block filler and now I apologize Tim who suggested it. I was just in from putting it all back together, which included three trips to Oreillys, some modifications to the gaskets to make them fit, two pretty cut up hands and a flaming carburetor so my nerves were shot. Then I read, you should have filled it with cement. But now I see. It's actually a thing to do. I could still do that, but I don't think it would be a good idea if I don't know if the block is cracked in other places? I suppose that stuff wouldn't be able to flow through a crack, but maybe there's another hole?
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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No Duane. Ken hasn't commented on the Hard Blok. You were the one that brought up the testimonials so I feel you can do the testing on your engine. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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Get some Coffee guys.
Like was said above, Backfiring and flaming through the carb could be related to too early timing (if it is backfiring), Firing order off, Flooding. If you don't see any fuel pouring from the boosters/J vent tubes while running or after shutting off then the floats/needle and seats are probably ok. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3748 |
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I have never used the block rock in an engine I built but I have seen several being assembled. Heat is created in the combustion chamber and that area is still open to cooling. The lower cylinder area is what would be filled with the block rock or hard blok.
We all know this old 351W is not a racer and the only reason to consider hard blok would be a band aid in this case to plug the leaks and it might work. As stated a boat has an unlimited supply of cool water so it can stay cool much easier than a automobile. I think most blocks that crack from freezing crack about midway up the block and I don't know if you could fill the block that high safely. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6157 |
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A rock blocked engine would be very hard to drain water out during winterization.
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baitkiller
Platinum Member Joined: October-11-2011 Location: SW Florida Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
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Just think of it as extra ballast.
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Jesus was a bare-footer.............
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William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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I watched a video of a guy doing the block rock thing and he inserted a tube from the top of the block through the factory drain hole which was removed after the stuff (can't bring myself to say cement in an engine) set., so the factory drains could still be used. As far as my saga goes, I got the engine running and it purrs; the plug held as long as the engine ran, a little over five minutes. On the slightly downside, my engine seems to be a very big and powerful cappuccino maker . The froth is in both valve covers so I'm going in next week. I'm, of course, hoping for blown head gaskets. Oh, BTW, the fire, I caused, because I was spraying starting fluid in a carburetor with stuck butterfly valves. I read about using that stuff AFTER I started the fire and see now that I was making a bomb. Rookie that I am. So I cleaned the carb and it's fine now. It will be the first time I've done a head gasket. I've done a timing chain on a duel cam Miata but that's the extent of my deep engine experience. I'm actually stoked about it.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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Set up a shelf spanning the gunnel so you have a handy place to set tools. Also, a step ladder might be kinder on your legs than stepping up on the trailer 100s of times.
Good luck, hope it needs gaskets only. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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I think your chances of the problem being a head gasket are about as good as Pete's chances of winning the lottery and me being mauled by a grizzly on the same day.
Freeze damage isn't very likely to mess up a head gasket without also damaging the block or the head When you take the intake manifold off, look in the lifter gallery area and you might see a big crack right in that area since that's the wall of the water jacket. inside the engine Your patch did it's job and let you run the engine to show that there's another leak. I think your luck has run out, maybe I'll be wrong ...............maybe not |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Time for more face cream and or Preparation H!!
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