"Blown" Ford 351 |
Post Reply | Page <1 34567 14> |
Author | |
gt40KS
Gold Member Joined: August-05-2017 Location: Wichita Kansas Status: Offline Points: 946 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
HA HA !! Kindred spirits. Hey, here's a nice light 5 liter drop-in.... fully stocked with 1200 ponies !! |
|
JCCI
1995 Ski Nautique GT40 |
|
outerbanked
Senior Member Joined: July-27-2017 Location: seattle Status: Offline Points: 104 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Wondering if you can use an air compressor and the block drain fitting to make air come out the cracks. Maybe stick a soapy rag up the rear exhausts and take thre hull intake off and put a rag or wood plug to block flow. Remember to drop your regulator down to 15lbs.
If you can suck up soapy water first, you might be able to blow bubbles through all cracks. |
|
William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Ok, well, I suggest everyone buy preparation H stock. I've always had more time than money so I try and fix things instead of replacing them. I'm gonna dig in Sunday, weather permitting.
|
|
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
|
|
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Pressurizing the block is a good test to verify no leaks but remember there is always the chance you have a crack in the head or block that opens up when hot.
I did a cold test on a 460 Ford last year using 35 PSI of air pressure. You do not want to use more than that because it can blow out good gaskets if you go higher. I put a gauge on my 460 closed the ball check valve to seal it and left it 24 hours to make sure it held pressure. That work saved me pulling the heads. Turned out in my case we found a leak in the exhaust risors gaskets was putting water in the oil. The 460 was fine with an oil change. It ran all summer this year. My Nephews boat. It is pretty easy to plug all the water exit holes and plumb in a connection to your air lines. I used a ball check valve and hooked it to one heater hose. Brought pressure slowly up to 35 psi then got out the soap and water spray and started checking for leaks. I found 3 leaks at my hose clamp connections with the soap and water before getting a good test. It will tell you quickly if you have an internal leak letting water flow into the oil. One thing I learned the hard way, when you bleed down the air pressure after the test do it slowly. I popped off my air hose with the valve open and the water in the block under 35 PSI sprayed out, soaked a lot of stuff within 10 feet of the boat. I did not think of that when I disconnected. |
|
William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I like the pressure test idea. How exactly is it done? How and where do you hook the air compressor, which I'd need to buy, to the engine? Where and how would I hook up a gauge?
|
|
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
|
|
SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Juts need to block off everywhere the water goes in & out of engine. Just get an air hose, quick disconnects, & tire chuck. Use your spare tire for pressure source. When you disconnect it will let you know if there still is pressure in the circuit.
Personally, I think this is a waste of time, as you aready know there are serous cracks. Better to spend the time disassembling, imo. |
|
“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
|
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If you want a quick and dirty test, true backyard hack styleI would
Drain the oil, leave the plug out Take the hose from your raw water pump to the thermostat housing and disconnect it from the raw water pump Hook your garden hose to that hose Turn on the water to the hose You'll now have water flowing, some is going out the exhaust and the engine will be full. It won't overpressurize anything because the exhausts are open but you'll have about normal operating pressure in the block. Now...............see if water is draining out the oil pan drain. You'll be able to quantify the leakage this way too. No water coming out, no leaks and if there's water, well you know the rest It won't tell you the location, but neither will air. Like I said............straight from the backyard, but effective |
|
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
This is a picture of a coolant test on my BMW X5 4.8L. It must be pressure checked before final assembly or you may waste a 1/2 day of labor.
My tool is homemade using parts in the garage and a trip to the local hardware. Not shown but off to the right side of the brass T in the picture is a Ball Check valve to allow me to shut it off when needed and on the end of the ball check valve is the connection for my air compressor hose. I just turn the compressor regulator down to 35 PSI before this test to make sure I don't blow out the gaskets in the engine. It worked well on the 460 and on the wifes X5. |
|
William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
All sounds good. I'm going to try the backyard water test just for kicks, then tear into it. It seems to me that if I don't see any obvious cracks or more holes, each of the heads would have to be tested separately as well as the block somehow. I'm not sure if the risers and exhaust manifolds would play into water in the oil since they are just water and exhaust?
|
|
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
|
|
MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If its freeze damage. It is the block that is bad. As already pointed out if water is going into the oil the likely crack is in the lifter valley. Start looking for a block.
Overheats will damage heads and cause head gaskets to blow. |
|
William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If you want to keep the engine as a reverse rotation engine you'll need a 351W block with a 2 piece rear main seal so you can use the reverse rotation crank.you have now. This was suggested to me. I have no idea what a two piece main seal is. Ill have to go to school on blocks.
|
|
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
|
|
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If you have a 1 piece seal block you just need a 1 piece reverse rotation seal
I think Ken in the past had located another cheaper sourse |
|
tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
William, I like your tenacity. You learned a new skill in making engine Block plugs way bigger than I ever thought possible. We’ve learned about Lock ‘n Stitch, Block cement, backyard internal crack tests and I’m sure a few other things if I re-read the whole thing a few times!
This Block deserves a proper burial, so I thought you might want to keep it for your Men’s Den coffee table. https://www.houzz.com/product/17083308-engine-block-coffee-table-metallic-silver-industrial-coffee-tables Engine Block Coffee Table |
|
baitkiller
Platinum Member Joined: October-11-2011 Location: SW Florida Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I like that but it has 2 flaws:
1) My wife would kill me.. again. 2) I'd stub my toe on it in the middle of the night and be crippled for life. |
|
Jesus was a bare-footer.............
|
|
William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for the props and ideas for a table, but, I'm not scheduling a funeral just yet.
|
|
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
|
|
tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I think you are emotionally attached to your engine Block like a dying pet or loved one. Ya got to let it go.
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
At least get your local hospice people to show up and have someone give it last rites too
|
|
William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yee of little faith. The fat lady is still eating.
|
|
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
|
|
tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It’s more than just a flesh wound! It’s just a flesh wound! |
|
William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Well that Monty Python was freakin hilarious. I AM that Black Knight! Good call tryathelete. Alas, I took the intake manifold off and found the lovely big crack and it look like to continues under the starboard head, so, I give up. Although I'm tempted to patch it too, I'd be on edge every time I take the boat out with Frankenstein engine patches all over. Also, from the pic can someone tell me if I have the one piece seal block or two? I'm at sea on this at the moment. Would a difference enable me to use a standard 351 block? Not sure if I'm even asking a coherent question.
|
|
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
|
|
William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I see that Ford changed to a one piece seal in 84, so mine must be a two piece, I'm not sure what that has to do with my case though. Do I have an option to change the entire engine? Can I change the whole thing out for a clockwise rotation rig? What would you do? Where in the world would I source a 351W reverse rotation engine ?
|
|
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
|
|
8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I would swap your parts into a new block.
|
|
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
+1 and a 2 piece seal block can be machined to a 1 piece block. 351's were built up until '96. All your internals will fit
|
|
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Time for the funeral
You have a 2 piece rear main seal in a 78 engine, that was mentioned way back. If all your other parts are good and you want to transfer stuff to another block you'd need an early block with the 2 pc rear main seal because your reverse rotation crank has wick lines, helix lines or whatever somebody may call them for oil at the back of the crank for oil control reasons. You also have a rotation specific camshaft distributor (just the gear on the distributor is rotation specific) and starter You can buy a long block reverse rotation engine from numerous rebuilders, transfer your marine parts and be good to go. Of course it will cost more than transferring parts to another block, but in the long run, it may be worth it for you. You could get a junkyard 351W from a truck that rotates the opposite way, transfer parts and reindex the transmission to work for you. You'd have to buy a normal rotation prop so that when you put the boat in forward, it will go forward. And you'd need a normal rotation marine starter and distributor (gear). People will tell you that the boat will handle differently and lean much more to the right with a normal rotation engine To the CC purist types this is absolutely sacrilegious I'd spend the next week or 3 of your life going through old threads here on CCF about 351W engines, read other people's experience, listen to recommendations, then make up your own mind based on your budget, engine assembly experience and tools available to you etc There are west coast people who will come along that could tell you what places they used for things like a long block Oh yeah, ask questions first instead of after buying parts to make sure you get things right. |
|
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Gary Can you go the other way and machine a 1 piece seal block for a 2 piece seal. I never really thought about it With a 78 he's got a 2 piece rear main seal assuming it's the original block A little voice in my head says probably not |
|
Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
More importantly is why,meaning you would not need to. You could machine it for a 1 and put a speedi sleeve on the crank. If my Mustang engine ever comes out,which I doubt,I'll have it done.
google link |
|
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Now I think I see what you're trying to tell him maybe. But if he want's to keep it simple which it seems like he does, he finds a 2 piece seal older block and no machining is needed at least for the seal. |
|
KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
My point exactly We're just saying the same thing differently |
|
William777
Senior Member Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Lads, a member here was nice enough to inform me there was a 351 block for sale in Portland for 110 bucks .(including heads, cam shaft and all sorts of bits) A friend of mine happened to be there at the very time, so she picked it up for me. Its been bored? to 30 over. The same fellow who told me about the block happened to have a set of 30 over pistons, which I also bought. So now, all I have to do is completely swap every part and I'll have a perfectly good 351. I'm terrified but no one ever did anything till they did it the first time. So the fat lady did a lovely aria over the old block. I'm aiming for Spring. Pray for me. William
|
|
1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
|
|
samudj01
Gold Member Joined: March-10-2009 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 974 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
This is why I enjoy this site. Good luck on your project. I’ll be following and hoping to learn a lot. Please update as you go.
|
|
78 Ski Tique, 72 Skier w/302's, 93 SN w/351 & 17 GS22 w/zr409
Previous - 99 Sport Nautique w/GT40 and 87 Martinique w/351 |
|
Post Reply | Page <1 34567 14> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |