Antifreez test |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: January-31-2019 at 10:33am |
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Per Ken's suggestion ("goating") , I ran a test on -50 RV antifreeze overnight. We only got down to a -28 but it was still cold enough to get a good test. Here's the test set up:
The results were very obvious. The full strength was slushy and showed no signs of any expansion. The 25/75 was fairly hard and did expand. The 50/50 was the worst and it was rock hard .and did expand. If ether the 25/75 or the 50/50 were confined, I'd have to say the expansion would do some damage in a hard vessel. My recommendation for winterizing a block remains the same. Always drain first and then add the antifreeze. As an additional step draining some of the antifreeze out of the low points to see if there's any water is still in the block is a good practice. If you have a refractometer, take a test to see what the freeze protection is. The bottom line is water mixed into the RV antifreeze is bad. Those of you that suck especially without draining are taking a BIG chance. The recommended procedure in the manual is to remove a hose and pour the anti in. Pretty simple!!! Every spring we seem to have someone post a problem with something on his engine or even the block that froze. |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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Good work Pete. I've never understood what's so hard about just draining everything.
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6121 |
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What's even odder is how belligerently some people will defend not draining. From PN last fall... 30 liters....yeah, that's money well spent. |
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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phatsat67
Grand Poobah Joined: March-13-2006 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 6150 |
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A fool and his money.
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GottaSki
Grand Poobah Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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I concur. Drain
I use pglycol in a bucket mouse trap over the winter. Even the modest of dilution would mess it up and make a hard slush shudder what pizpoor ratios develop on a water-filler block. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11045 |
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Pete I think you meant to say "goading" not "goating" Here's a definition of goading "provoke or annoy (someone) so as to stimulate some action or reaction". I not sure what you do with the goats on a cold winter night up there, but that's between you and the them I am pretty annoying But anyways....... on to the antifreeze discussion We had a mild 2 below zero night last night and I took a glass bottle filled with a 50/50 mix of the minus 50 F stuff capped it and set it outside during the afternoon and let it sit till this morning. I figured maybe the bottle would break but this morning the bottle was intact and the cap had deformed enough that the seal wasn't great and there was frozen pink stuff around the cap area on the outside. Kinda like a freeze,casting,core or whatever else you might refer to it as plug that was pushed out but the cap threads kept it from coming all the way off. I figure that burst protection at this temperature was marginal at best so all those southern boys that don't drain and just suck up 5 gallons might be protected down to a little below zero for burst protection...........maybe Also did the same with a bottle with a 75% antifreeze/25% water mix and like expected, it froze and had no effect on the bottle or the cap seal area. This would be kinda like getting most of the water out and pouring in some of the minus 50 stuff Like has been said on here for a long time and Pete said again, if you drain first, it's really hard to screw things up no matter what you do after that. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Funny that PN came to mind after both of these posts! |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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Can't imagine the residual water in a block is any more than 8 oz, which is only about 3% if you add 2 gal on top of it.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11045 |
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Sounds reasonable. I just picked a worse case number like 25% water. Which is probably why your way and my way of winterizing which are pretty much the same work for us with no issues |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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But Bruce, the 2 gal. isn't completely mixing with the 8oz.. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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Not only is it miscible but PG is denser that water.
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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So if you just drained & left the plugs out, spent the saved $5 on good beer, should the beer be chilled to 35F or 45F?
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Those guys on PN have alot of money though Larry |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6121 |
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Clearly. Plus I have other priorities. For example, It costs a lot for water, soap and electricity to wash my clothes. So everyday, after I wear them, I throw them out and buy new. |
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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75 Tique
Grand Poobah Joined: August-12-2004 Location: Seven Lakes, NC Status: Offline Points: 6121 |
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apparently. Showed up in a thread about "your garages" |
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_____________
“So, how was your weekend?” “Well, let me see…sun burn, stiff neck, screwed up back, assorted aches and pains….yup, my weekend was great, thanks for asking.” |
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Faceplant
Senior Member Joined: July-27-2013 Location: Otter Lake , Mi Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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Showed my sweetie the garage pictures . Have a feeling that it's " NOT going to happen ".
I tried . LOL |
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Feels like I am hanging 10 but in reality - probably hanging 6.
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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We built a house like that for a customer literally on Lake Dora. First floor was all boat house and deck that had similar concept but instead of a boat cradle their 34’ Tritoon was parked directly on the composite decking and the entire section of deck lowered into the water with hidden hydraulics and the boat drove off. Then upon return he pulled the boat into the slip and a remote control raised the deck out of the water and toon rested on it.
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1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
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Riley
Grand Poobah Joined: January-19-2004 Location: Portland, ME Status: Offline Points: 7953 |
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and that would explain a popping freeze plug in a SBF many years ago before we started purging the water out. We winterized 2 boats this winter by draining and then pouring 1/2-3/4 gallon into them and letting that drain out and leaving them empty. The rest got filled with -100. after draining. I won't disclose how many gallons of -100 we bought last fall, but we would like to cut down on our consumption. We're not losing any sleep though, even if it goes down to -50. I got to think if you did your test with -100, none of the samples would have a problem. |
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Smithfamily
Platinum Member Joined: December-26-2007 Location: Orlando, Fl Status: Offline Points: 1602 |
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Which house is this Todd? |
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Js
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Smithfamily
Platinum Member Joined: December-26-2007 Location: Orlando, Fl Status: Offline Points: 1602 |
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Very interesting research Pete.
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Js
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Bruce, You are one that all should follow. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21169 |
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Oh geez, don’t encourage him Pete.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13513 |
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I would purge twice, just to make sure you nap as well as you sleep at night.
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2955 |
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Damn KENO! You just made Diet Coke shoot out my nose. Note to self: NO DRINKING while reading KENO's posts on CCF. JQ |
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11045 |
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Glad to help keep your nose cleaned out Jonny
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3734 |
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So what is the reason for filling with antifreeze rather than draining and leaving empty.
Trying to protect against rust? Heck they rust all Summer when filled with water from the lakes. Nice work Pete, might end up in a College somewhere. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Many still do just a drain only. It was the ORIGINAL way to winterize! I've done plenty and still take care of a neighbors Chris/Hercules that just gets drained. |
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67 ski nat
Platinum Member Joined: July-19-2018 Location: Santa rosa Status: Offline Points: 1194 |
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Hi peter. At what temps do you recommend winterizing. Unfortunately I’m in California near coast gets into low 30’s , if it rarely got into 20’s I would put heat lamp or heater in boat for the week. Your thoughts?? Thanks
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Gloating vs goading vs goating. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Daryn, It sounds like you have a technique that works. I have no fears of you having any issues or worries. Even when the temps get into the 20's, it takes several days for the engine to see the temps. The trans cooler would be the first to be susceptible. The light bulb trick you use is taking care of you. |
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