1977 302 PCM Engine

Mille1sj wrote: Gary, I will research the distributor gear more. I need to confirm that before I do some damage. Thanks for the heads up.

That should be real easy research Steve.

Talk to LSM Engineering and ask them if your distributor gear is compatible with the gear on the new camshaft

Stock distributor gear is cast iron

Logically, I would have thought there would have been some mention of gear compatibility somewhere along the way when the camshaft was being ordered/made/sent to you.

Mille1sj wrote: Thanks Ken, I’ll call LSM on Monday. There are some notes I’ll check on the cam card as well. I don’t remember seeing it, but it may be on there.

Apparently this is a really long phone call

Just me thinking out loud here, but it seems that LSM should have been talking about cam gear compatibility with you before deciding to make your cam.

Maybe they did and you didn't realize that there was nothing out there

it's pretty common knowledge at least here on CCF that what you need doesn't really exist as a mass produced product and they should know that too or at least ask what you have for a gear..

Can't they make a gear for you that's compatible with their cam or maybe do the coating of a cast iron RR gear that you send to them? Or tell you where to get it done to their standards.

At least that way if there are problems it's their cam and gear.

Otherwise if you have problems, you know what their answer will be with somebody else's gear being involved.

I don't have a clue what a one off gear like that or even a small number of them would cost but you're a gear guy that could probably get some help through work and if you had orders for a few from some CCFers it could bring the price per gear down..

I was hoping your answer would be different, but had that feeling that this would be the situation.

Duane in Indy may be able to be of some help here

Sounds like consistent info.

https://www.onedirt.com/tech/engine/its-all-in-the-twist-taking-the-confusion-out-of-distributor-gear-compatibility/

Mille1sj wrote: Even a Cast iron gear is nearly impossible to find. So after multiple calls with LSM and a few former coworkers, they recommended I have a cast iron gear melonite or nitride coated. This should allow it to work with the 8620 Roller Cam. Any thoughts on this? Anyone with a metallurgy background that would agree or disagree? If bronze is the only way, I can get a few gears made, but i’ll Pay for it.

8620 is a very good steel alloy. It can have a tough core and a hard outer surface. Core for strength and hard surface for wear.
Anyway, if you could get a length of material cut (hobbed) with the correct tooth configuration then the remaining work (lathe) is pretty simple. I would suggest at least 12 inches of gear, then numerous gears can be machined from that one piece.
Nitriding is a surface hardening that is only a couple thousands deep but very hard.
That is at least one way to go.   (I will probably get corrected here, I always do)

DUI supplies the reverse Ford dizzy so they have access to the gear documents?

Mallory is just brushing you off.

They still list a 302 and 351 Dizzy with a RR gear?

3d printing would be stellar. Anyone know anyone?

TRBenj wrote: Pretty sure that dui hasn’t had rr gears in many years. 3D printing technology there get? I’d be leaning on LSM pretty hard to find a workable solution.

Their fix is to send my current gear out to melonized. I am fine with that, after I confirm with a few metallurgists that it will work.

I’d like to know whether the available 3d printing material(s) are suitable for the application... I have little doubt the gear could be reproduced reasonably accurately.

TRBenj wrote: I’d like to know whether the available 3d printing material(s) are suitable for the application... I have little doubt the gear could be reproduced reasonably accurately.

I just spoke to a local 3D printing source, they said they use MS1 tool steel that could be carborized, nitrided, heat treated, surface treated, welded, etc.

Mille1sj wrote: I like the Idea of one long gear and cutting off pieces to machine into gears. I am working on getting a second gernzonthat I can have one nitrided then send the other out to be reverse engineered. I offered to buy the prints or cutting summaries from MSD, Mallory and pretty much anyone else that has made these gears. They claim they don’t have any of these records anymore.

The voice on the phone at DUI will tell you that they have 302 RR distributors complete with a gear and they're made of cast iron for flat tappet cams.

If you're looking for a gear to send out to be reverse engineered, I know "this guy" that has a new Mallory gear for a 351W that would probably lend it to you

It's the same as the 302 gear except the hole for the shaft is bigger,

0.531 inches for a 351W       0.467 inches for a 302

I may need a sample gear, we discussed scanning a new gear and the one off of my distributor and doing an overlay to see how much it wore. We also talked about a more accurate way to measure using a Faro Arm.

I’ll call DUI tomorrow to see if they have any information they would be willing to share regarding their gears.

SNobsessed wrote: Reading your story, It seems LSM needs to help you resolve this dilemma. They are the experts & should have alerted you to the difficulty in sourcing a NLA mating part. You can't be the only person to run into this brick wall.

LSM does 3D printing, so they can help with that, but they don’t print in bronze or composite. They are still looking into what they can do to help.

KENO wrote: It's the same as the 302 gear except the hole for the shaft is bigger, 0.531 inches for a 351W       0.467 inches for a 302

I heard of a guy once that bored out the smaller one to make it fit the bigger shaft and then even sleeved a big one to fit the smaller shaft.

KENO wrote: There I was driving down the road and Abracadabra came on the radio which for some strange reason made me think of this thread    Can't help but wonder if you ever got a gear for the roller cam?

I may be a little late getting the boat in the water this year. I have some composite gears being made now. I managed to get 2 new cast iron gears for a 351, I sent those and my original 302 gear to a small gear shop in Chicago I used use for prototypes. They have reverse engineered the gear. The original plan was to have them cut them out of bronze. Fortunately, I found the company that makes the majority of the composite gears you see online for all automotive applications. They agreed to sell me the composite gear blanks (finishedand ready for teeth) for the 302, 0.467 ID.

The blanks should be shipping to the gear shop early next week. I think I can still get the boat in the water the first week of June if all goes well with the gears.

A little later than usual, however, we did get snow in Michigan this week, so I’m not missing much.