What would you do? |
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DHMcFadin
Senior Member Joined: May-27-2019 Location: Austin, Texas Status: Offline Points: 312 |
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Here you go:
https://www.mniboats.com/PCM-Fuel-Injector-6-0L-8NH-p/ra087009.htm New OEM Fuel Injector Set of (8) For Chevrolet and GMC V8-6.0L https://www.amazon.com/dp/B019EHCV38/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_vOFvDbTR2ZG40 https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/fuel-injectors/make/chevrolet/engine-size/6-0l-364 Lots of options. Might be worth your time to replace all 8. |
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poecs13
Groupie Joined: July-10-2017 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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This is the PCM one that my boat needs.
What I'm looking for is an automotive equivalent from ACDelco or the like for cheaper than PCM's $200 a piece. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Like Joe says there has to be other alternatives. Here for example are ones for Fords- 200 dollar each PCM injector 215 dollar set of 8 Ford motorsport injectors Just need to find the spec's of your GM injectors,PCM for sure did not make them |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Your injector shop should be able to advise you on their size and alternatives |
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poecs13
Groupie Joined: July-10-2017 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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A set of 8 for $50
Only ones I've found so far with four holes in the bottom. At that price point should I be at all concerned with the quality of the part or just go for it? |
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poecs13
Groupie Joined: July-10-2017 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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I figured the injector shop would be able to give a recommendation, but I said the word "marine" and their eyes glazed over.
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DHMcFadin
Senior Member Joined: May-27-2019 Location: Austin, Texas Status: Offline Points: 312 |
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Marine doesn’t matter. Is a standard GM 6.0 injector. |
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poecs13
Groupie Joined: July-10-2017 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Right, but apparently they come in a two or four hole variety, does that make a difference? The engine currently has the four hole version.
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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With what you just spent on the engine rebuild don't now get cheap on the injectors. I know nothing about GM's other than to put my key in my truck and go but I would find a name brand injector,those seem awful cheap. You know it can go horribly wrong the other way too- here is a melted piston from a GT40 that ran lean on #8 |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Does on a Ford,the high hp ones have the 4 hole. Just to be safe I would not change |
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DHMcFadin
Senior Member Joined: May-27-2019 Location: Austin, Texas Status: Offline Points: 312 |
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Grab a set of either GM label or Delphi injectors. Can be found easily online. Get a set of 8 so they all match.
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DHMcFadin
Senior Member Joined: May-27-2019 Location: Austin, Texas Status: Offline Points: 312 |
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Grab a set of either GM label or Delphi injectors. Can be found easily online. Get a set of 8 so they all match.
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Come on Gary a little emery cloth some pig mat n polish and slap it back in the hole. |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I’m gonna use some JB Weld there Paul- it’s got weld right them there in its name
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poecs13
Groupie Joined: July-10-2017 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Okay...the “PCM” (Delphi) one arrived from Miami Nautique and it has...you guessed it...TWO holes.
So now what? I’m thinking all eight should match? Were the original injectors 2 hole and someone switched them to 4 at some point? Sufficiently confused at this point. Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill with the number of holes? |
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Treybizttu
Gold Member Joined: October-02-2014 Location: Grapevine, TX Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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I would want them to match. I still doubt the number of holes needs to match as long as the volume/pressure matches...
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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Poecs13
Since you've been logged on a few times lately, is there a happy ending to this story? |
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poecs13
Groupie Joined: July-10-2017 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Ken,
Thanks for checking in, I've been meaning to get back on here to write an update. This was the kick I needed. I wish I had better news, but I'm still dealing with the same hot start issue that I chronicled here before the hydrolock and engine rebuild. Hard to believe that it's been almost two years and I still haven't solved the problem... It takes one crank to start the engine cold, no problem. After the engine is warm, if it sits for more than ten minutes after shut off, it is flooded and I have open the throttle wide open to clear it to restart. On the post referenced above, Jody suggested replacing the air temp sensor in the flame arrestor, but all I have near my flame arrestor sensor-wise is a Throttle Position Sensor and an Idle Air Control Valve. Unless one of them also has a temperature sensor? I am open to any and all suggestions on this one. My wife is ready to trade the boat in. She doesn't want to go another summer with a non-functioning boat and is (rightfully) fearful of repeating the hydrolock episode from last spring if we continue to run as is. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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I think you don't have an IAT sensor
The link below is to a PCM manual that covers more than one engine but your 6.0 is one of them. It's a 337 page download and if you go to page section 2 you'll find lots of sensor info and the 6.0 doesn't seem to have one. The 5.7 for example has a combined MAP/IAT sensor but in a couple of places it says your 6.0 doesn't. and doesn't have an input to the computer unless the functions are combined and they don't talk about it. All kinds of good GM fuel injection info in the manual link |
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poecs13
Groupie Joined: July-10-2017 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Ken,
Thanks for the manual! I hadn't come across that one yet, but it is super helpful. However, the manual states that the combo MAP/IAT sensor only exists on the 5.0/5.7 motors. On the 6.0, it's only a MAP sensor. Is the MAP sensor still the potential culprit in this case? |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11087 |
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Well at least we agree on the way we read the manual The first link below is the parts manual and that lists no IAT sensor either. The second link is to a PCM MAP sensor for your engine. With a little shopping you can find a generic replacement for half the price if you're so inclined. It could be a cause of the issue but without the diagnostic tools it's kinda a crap shoot link link |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3748 |
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Sounds to me like the injector issue was never fixed. 4 hole or 2 hole does not matter but what does matter is the gallons per hour flow and a quality build.
Many GM drivers tune for more horsepower with the LS engine blocks. A common upgrade is to replace standard injectors with new injectors that have a higher gallon per hour flow rate to keep up with the other performance mods they make. The only source for fuel in the intake is your injectors, if you are flooding they are not holding the fuel. Opening the throttle wide open while starting in modern fuel injected engines will shut off your fuel flow, this is an automatic built in process to help clear a flooded engine. The fact you have to do this to start does again point to injectors as your problem. I would not change any other parts till you fix this issue. Yours failed at a very young age, not sure why but maybe the previous owner ran a bad injector cleaner through your system and damaged them. I would replace all 8 before you do more damage to your brand new engine. GM does not make fuel injectors, they are probably OEM Bosch or Denso brand sold by GM. Take a close up picture of your injector, the part number is usually printed right on it. Many companies sell OEM type injectors that will swap in with zero issue. I would do some reading on the Camaro and Corvette forums to see what brand those guys are happy with, I would not think twice about Marine, not important for this part. If your OEM injectors are 24 lb injectors I would stay close to that number for your boat, if you find 26 or 28 lb injectors for a good price use them. A small change will not affect you but stay with the same if possible. Do some reading or ask questions and make sure the new injectors are E85 compatible, that would allow more fuel choices in the future. How does the new engine run? I hope it makes you happy when it is running. |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3748 |
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Injector reading for the LS engines: https://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/injector-specs-gm-fuel-injector-identification-and-cross-reference/
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zwoobah
Senior Member Joined: September-13-2018 Location: Providence RI Status: Offline Points: 308 |
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Pull your fuel rails, leave the injectors and fuel lines attached. Put a thick rag topped with clean paper towels beneath each injector tip. Turn on the key to prime the fuel system, then turn the key off. Come back after an hour and see which injector is leaking down - you'll see gas soaked into the paper towel below the bad injector.
I had this problem on a BMW 330i. Car ran perfectly but was miserable to get started. Bad #4 injector caused the problem. |
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1968 Mustang 16 - 351W powered
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poecs13
Groupie Joined: July-10-2017 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Only had a few hours at the lake today, so didn't get to do everything I wanted to or test thoroughly, but I think some progress made:
An acquaintance theorized that the excess fuel may be the result of a blocked return line from the Fuel Control Cell back to the tank. The excess fuel has to go somewhere, so probably into the rails and out the injectors. Also the only place for pressure to be relieved after turning off the engine. He suggested taking some extra fuel line and running the boat off of a five gallon can. When I tried this, it miraculously solved the hot start issue. I ran out of time, and still intend to double check the injectors. But I'm cautiously optimistic that if I replace the return fuel line that we can finally put this thing to bed. I was able to blow through the line without too much resistance, but maybe the interior has deteriorated so there isn't adequate flow back to the tank? Does this seem plausible as a cause and viable solution? My next trip out will be longer so I will have more time to thoroughly test this solution and double check the injectors. |
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Orlando76
Grand Poobah Joined: May-21-2013 Location: Mount Dora, FL Status: Offline Points: 3108 |
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What would you do... for a Klondike Bar?
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Please support The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation
1976 Ski Nautique 351 Escort 1993 Ski Nautique purple and black 351 HO PCM |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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If your injectors are not leaking and the tail isn’t over pressure I don’t see how the fuel gets into the cylinders unless the injectors are leaking or the fuel pressure Somehow rises after the pump is turned off.
Test and Replace injectors. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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No if you can blow though it fuel can flow through it. I’m not very familiar with the Chevy system but I would assume there has to be a pressure regulator on the return line, that’s where I would start. |
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poecs13
Groupie Joined: July-10-2017 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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So this story has finally drawn to a close, and thankfully a happy ending! Actually resolved the weekend of July 4, but of course with the site crash, no way to update here!
You guys were right, it did end up being a bad injector. Which one? I have no idea because I just replaced all eight at once. But the engine no longer floods ten minutes after shutdown. As a matter of fact, it runs just about perfectly now. Many thanks to all for your advice and input! CCF is truly an invaluable resource! Charlie
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Did you end up with 2 hole or 4 hole injectors. Where did you get them, what is the part number, info for the next guy that has this problem would be great.
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