Water in Transmission Fluid |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Posted: January-07-2020 at 12:33am |
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Recently discovered water in '95 SN transmission...Besides the bilge flooding &/or transmission cooler failing, what else am I missing?
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Nautiquehunter
Platinum Member Joined: December-31-2008 Location: Lake Lanier GA Status: Offline Points: 1010 |
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That's it . Has it started slipping yet . You will need to replace the trans cooler and flush it 5-10 times until all signs of water is gone . Maybe you got lucky
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Thank you for the help...I"m hoping that is the case and caught it before any damage. I just ordered the trans cooler this morning and have flushed it a few times already. Working through some other gremlins with regards to the cooling system in hopes that it will make it through the summer.
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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I love your screen name. |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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As a 'new' B.O.A.T. owner, I'm starting to see how true the acronym really is...
Thankful for all on this forum who have shared their knowledge. It has been a tremendous help over the last 6 months! |
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tryathlete
Platinum Member Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Did you solve the problem with the new cooler?
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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I made progress with the water in transmission fluid. I'm continuing to drain & refill as recommended above. Not perfectly red yet, but I think it is getting there...The boat ran good the other day with no apparent slipping, but dealing with another issue now. Thought the water leaks were associated with the exhaust manifold & a cracked muffler. Repaired/replaced both, but now the leak is coming from the engine (block, head, or gasket???)...MTF! I might be in search of a 351 and a mechanic in the Fort Worth area....
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3749 |
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Is this a Ford Engine? Another source can be the Front Cover. If the gaskets leak or you get some rot in there it can let water into the engine. It has happened to others.
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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MrMcD,
Yes (PCM 5.8 EFI)....I'm still new to the boating world, but trying to ramp up quickly with the help of this group! All the advice and inputs are welcome & much appreciated. I bought this boat for $6500 and have quickly started turning more wrenches than i have in a long time. Now approaching about $1500 in new parts so far (water pump, exhaust manifold, battery, starter/solenoid, trailer hub/bearings, etc). My latest problem... significant water 'squirting' out of the left side. Engine was winterized and problem surfaced after an engine overheat which I"m 'blaming' on the water pump. The engine oil still looks good so I'm hoping that it is the gasket and not an engine block or head. Planning to go run it this morning before heading to work in hopes to help isolate....Fish or cut bait w/ this '95 Ski Nautique???...That is the question. My son doesn't appreciate our vintage boat like I do and would just put a trolling motor on it if i let him:) |
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SNobsessed
Grand Poobah Joined: October-21-2007 Location: IA Status: Offline Points: 7102 |
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You could look at the core plugs, these sometimes get pushed out from a freeze event. Look under the manifolds, they are about 2 inches in diameter.
They are cheap & easy to replace. Hope you get off work in time to watch the SB. |
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
Ben Franklin |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11093 |
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I don't see any mention of water in the engine oil, just external water leaks If the leak is only external, up around the spark plug area of the head, there's a chance you have external cracks in the water jacket. GT40 heads which came on your engine have been known to crack and spray water out and not leak water into the engine. Not saying that's your issue, but definitely something to look at Click on the link below for some reading People have done "temporary" fixes with epoxy that have lasted years depending on the severity of the cracks Not the best fix but it buys you some time and you can maybe get all your issues sorted out If that is your issue, you may have to BRKOUT5bucks for epoxy and a little of your time or BRKOUTanother1K or more for heads depending on whether you're doing the work yourself link Here's a picture from CCF of a gt40 head with external cracks You can also see the plugs SNObsessed mentioned down lower in the picture |
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67 ski nat
Platinum Member Joined: July-19-2018 Location: Santa rosa Status: Offline Points: 1194 |
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Hey ‘ 1.5 K’. Your experience with this boat sounds very similar to mine
Your replacing all the right basic parts, there will be more If you have skills wrenching find your inner Zen and keep going Make it a relaxing hobby like water color painting If you feel overwhelmed look at the ‘longhorn nautique thread |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Thanks for the advice & direction once again...I woke up with the crud so I might have to postpone the morning operation. Any way to post video on this forum? I still haven't figured out how to upload pics yet...I didn't see any water coming out of the lower freeze plugs, but to be honest I was somewhat disappointed when I noticed all the water on my last maintenance run. Prior to dropping it into the lake we ran it on the water hose at the house and didn't have any signs of additional problems. I am planning to run it again without the cover as soon as possible and try to video the event. I had a little water from the manifold and a cracked exhaust muffler for sure, but now I'm slowing getting in over my head:)
Yes, I've been following the longhorn thread and enjoying watching all the progress....Amazing work being done to restore that boat. I've always like the Nautique Boats growing up on the Colorado River...now just hoping to introduce my kids to the Lake Life out here in the Fort Worth area. |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Brian, Click on the full reply editor or the Post reply. Then click the tree with the up arrow. A browse box will come up allowing you to select anything off your computer. Mobile devices don't work without lots of maneuvering. |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Here is a screenshot from the video we took before replacing the exhaust manifold...The spraying I noticed last time was actually captured in a video, but I did not notice it as I was focused on the exhaust manifold as being the last source of my water leaks...
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Brian,
Looks like it's time to get the Dremel out and the epoxy and see how long it will last. I highly recommend a Devcon, Lord or Loctite steel filled epoxy. Don't go the JB route as it being formulated for the backyard hack who can't mix equal amounts, it's made to be forgiving and not as strong. |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Oh come on Pete I used JB on my ‘95 heads and it lasted 3 years and I don’t feel like a back yard hack, guess I am.
The problem ends up being the crack spreads/continues to crack not the bond of the JB. I even tried to drill a hole to stop the crack to no avail. A Hack repair “may” get you an extra season or two but in the end they will crack more and eventually fail possibly causing more damage. |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Pete & Paul,
Thank you both for the advice on this one. Typically, are these leaks associated with the heads only or likely to be with the block as well? Brian |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11093 |
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Since neither of them guys answered, it's a weakness in the GT40 heads. They seem to crack more than the earlier heads or the later GT40P heads Your block can be fine and the heads can be leaking. A good close inspection will tell you where the leaks are. |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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KENO,
Thank you Sir for your help.. I'm looking forward to the next trip on the water for some more video footage in hopes of a 'positive' report. Brian |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Just ran it on the water hose and all the leaks that I noticed were coming directly from around the head bolts.
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3749 |
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Well, kind of narrows it down some. Leaks around the head bolts.
I don't know Ford engines well enough to say for sure but if those bolts go into the water jacket they need to be treated with a bolt sealer before install. Many engines have head bolts that go into the water jacket and a bolt sealer can dry it up. If your heads are cracked I am sorry, they are available and not too much money. Time for a new forum name, this one has you jinxed. |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Concur MrMcD! I'll start a new one once i have it up and running! Thx to all for the help as I ramp up the wrench turning.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11093 |
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So what's the plan?
You're probably figuring you can goop up the bolt threads and retorque them and you'll be all set...............problem solved. You probably looked on the internet and found that half of the people say that the 351W head bolt holes go into the water jacket and the bolt threads need to be sealed while the other half say the holes are blind holes that don't communicate with the water jacket. Now you need to figure out who to believe. If I was you, I'd take the bolts out one at a time and clean the area around them real good and look for head cracks near the holes and stick something down the bolt hole and see if it bottoms out or just goes right into the water jacket. Last time I checked this on a 351W they were all blind holes that don't penetrate the water jacket. It's been a while though, roughly 10 minutes ago was when I checked a couple of 351W blocks in the garage Don't take my word or anybody else's though..........check it yourself on your own engine. Assuming you're doing this gooping up of the threads, then you need the torque spec for the head bolts. You'll find a good half dozen different values for the final torque if you do a search. I can tell you some numbers if you need them. If you do find water in the bolt holes, it got there through a path that shouldn't exist like water jacket corrosion in the block or heads, an external crack like originally mentioned that goes all the way to the bolt hole or a bad head gasket, but that would probably be leaking internally into the engine or externally at the gasket joint which doesn't seem to be your problem. Maybe you'll goop them up and at least temporarily solve your problem, it's worth a try since it'll cost you nothing but some of your time and a container of your favorite thread sealer. Good luck and keep the thread updated |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11093 |
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Here's an old thread where the guy thought he had leaks from the head bolts, until he found some very fine cracks in the heads
link |
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gun-driver
Grand Poobah Joined: July-18-2008 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4127 |
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Sorry didn't mean to leave ya hanging, had a long night of work had to get caught up on sleep. I knew you'd be in good hands with Ken picking up my slack. Exactly what Ken said and so you know he is the search and find Guru |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3749 |
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The Head Gasket was mentioned. I just re read your note above about your water leak starting after an overheat.
The overheat could have given you two issues. Cracks in your heads as already mentioned and the Head Gasket which was already mentioned. When an engine overheats from either poor tune or from a coolant supply issue the hot areas of your head can grow more than other areas that are running cooler. These hot areas can crush the head gasket. When things cool down the heads and block go back to original size but that head gasket will remain crushed in the areas around the overheat. This crush will not rebound, the head gasket is done at this point and needs to be replaced. On tear down you can measure the gasket with a Mic and find any areas that were crushed. You will be measuring along at say .040 thickness and when you find the hot spots the thickness will drop by .003 or more. These areas are where your leaks will happen. It can be compression leak or a coolant leak. Fel-Pro offers instructions on how and where to measure for gasket crush. Sounds like your head bolts go into blind holes so next step for me would be to pull the heads. either the gaskets are crushed or the heads are cracked, either way they will be coming off and you have a starting point for the repair. The good news, both heads could be off your boat in less than a couple hours, it is not that big of a job. A machine shop can magniflux and pressure check them for you and detect any cracks. Good time to get a valve job while you are there if you have high hours. |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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You guys rock! I couldn't be more appreciative with your help on these subject. I'm really convinced that I have some cracks in the head and will be pursuing new heads as my primary plan. I just don't want to risk further damage to the engine since it seems to be running well for the most part As much as i'd like to limp along and save the $ on a temporary fix, I'm thinking the experts of this group would recommend putting new heads on for a successful summer. I might have to keep my day job and get a little help on this repair before we kick off the summer. I'll keep y'all posted once I've made progress and have completed the repair. Might be a few months of 'money laundering' so the wife doesn't know how much a B.O.A.T. really costs:)
Again, thx for all the follow-up & expertise... |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11093 |
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Sounds like a good primary plan Put a P on the end of GT40 and you should be good to go. Gun Driver did GT40P heads with I think no other changes and his ECU worked fine. He could tell you more I'm sure |
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BRKOUT1K
Groupie Joined: December-25-2019 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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Awesome...I'll be on the lookout for some GT40P heads.
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