Boats For Sale:
"Blown" Ford 351 |
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Duane in Indy 
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Joined: October-26-2015 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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 Posted: November-22-2020 at 10:54am |
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No coating yet. Wanted to make sure it would pump before $$ Anodizing. Not planning on brackish or salt water either. 6060-T6 was the material used. Probably last many many hours under normal usage in fresh water. If I had KENO'S energy then I would tear it apart and Anodize it. Too many irons in the fire now. (maybe need bigger fire?)
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Keep it as original as YOU want it
1978 Mustang (modified) |
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tryathlete
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Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Posted: November-22-2020 at 11:37am |
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Coatings for the alum pump.....might be a great place to try put PTFE. If the impeller runs dry it might last a few minutes longer.
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tryathlete
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Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Posted: November-22-2020 at 11:57am |
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William—we all wait to hear how it runs once the impeller is in. Is this the third year of this story?
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: November-22-2020 at 12:13pm |
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Yes, Duane could send it over to China and have them coat it with the as seen on TV Ninja non stick!   |
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: November-22-2020 at 12:19pm |
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Yes indeed it's year 3 ! My neighbor asked the other day if I was going to sell it after I get it running. My first thought was, "Are you ***************g kidding?!?" But I politely replied, 'No, I'm keeping it for myself.". Although I'm not finished, I have no regrets. It's had it's highs and lows. I know I go about things in my own way (read- what the hell am I doing?), but I haven't given up.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
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Posted: November-22-2020 at 12:28pm |
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And for all that Bill, you get one big  You're getting there |
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: November-22-2020 at 12:48pm |
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Thank you!!! You're getting there [/QUOTE] |
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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William777
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Posted: November-24-2020 at 1:42am |
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As I'm sitting here in the city with my raw water pump in hand, I'm thinking the sound I was hearing, the whining, is probably the sound of bearings going bad. I wiggled the shaft, a favorite pass time of mine, and it moves side to side a bit. Should it move? Is there an option for a bolt on replacement since this style is obsolete?
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: November-24-2020 at 5:30am |
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KENO
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Posted: November-24-2020 at 7:40am |
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In the link below is a Sherwood catalog/manual with lots of info. page 18 and 19 give info on Sherwood part numbers for your pump. It's a little awkward to read, but if page 18 is right next to page 19 instead of one above the other then things makes sense and you'll see that the great majority of parts are the same as a G21 that's still available. They give a Sherwood part number for a "major repair kit" for your pump. It's 23977 and has all the internal parts except the shaft. It's kinda pricey but it's available thru many outfits A rebuild isn't the easiest thing, you need a press for the bearings and you need to make sure all the snap rings are out so you don't break the housing when trying to get the bearings out You end up replacing the mechanical seal also when doing the bearings. There are instructions in the catalog/manual in the link and there's a thread by GaryS about his pump rebuild. There's alittle finesse involved with the bearings and mechanical seal. If you're not comfortable doing it, places like PumpVendor.com and others can do it for you or you could probably get it done locally but ya gotta pay attention to those snap rings You could also buy the bearings and mechanical seal separately and reuse some of your internal parts but the Sherwood kit is complete.. The bearing is a 6202-2RS-10 It's 5/8 ID, 35mm OD and 11 mm wide. The 10 on the end is important because that's telling you it has a 5/8 ID. A 6202-2RS without the 10 on the end won't work because it has a 15 mm ID which won't work. (it's close but you could never wiggle your shaft into it  ) |
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: November-24-2020 at 8:04am |
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If it'd just the bearing that's bad (besides the impeller), then for $7, get a new bearing.
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KENO
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Posted: November-24-2020 at 8:17am |
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You might even want to spend 14 bucks for 2 bearings and then a mechanical seal to go with the bearings like mentioned above
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8122pbrainard
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Posted: November-24-2020 at 9:07am |
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Yes, two bearings are needed. If you do want the seal, industry standards are about 1/3rd the cost of the Sherwood "12859" The industrial standard number should be stamped on the seal. |
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KENO
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Posted: November-24-2020 at 12:56pm |
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Bill
There's a number 8 on the Sherwood seal, making me think it's a Type 8 mechanical seal. Pete will take over from here with the mission of finding you the correct seal for 1/3 the cost of the original equipment Sherwood, including shipping of course
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William777
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Posted: November-24-2020 at 1:11pm |
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Thanks guys. I'm thinking I'd need special tools to remove and replace the bearings.(elaboration anyone?) I've contacted the PumpVender people and they charge a flat $90 plus parts. They sent a part list with prices, and they look about the same as the Sherwood retail prices. Leaning that way. Scary that if this raw water pump were not serviceable my entire boat would be obsolete since there's no replacement.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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KENO
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Posted: November-24-2020 at 1:21pm |
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The most special tool is the press, then some snap ring pliers.
Probably a good move to "keep leaning that way" without a press. It'll be done right, should last a long long time and you won't be wondering if you screwed anything up along the way. In desperate times, there's always a way to make another pump work if necessary
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fanofccfan
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Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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Posted: November-24-2020 at 1:27pm |
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I mounted a g21 pump in place of the original on my commander. It was actually very easy with a slight bracket modification. No worries on the old girl becoming obsolete.
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: December-05-2020 at 10:37pm |
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Today was a great day thanks to MourningWood from here on the forum. He graciously invited me to his house to rebuild my raw water pump. We found one of the bearings was completely frozen. He did 99% of the work for which I'm very very grateful! I didn't have the tools to do this and he saved me at least a few hundred by not having to send the pump off to be rebuilt. Not only that but the lady of the house makes a killer grilled cheese sandwich! I'm stoked and so appreciative. Tomorrow I'll re-install the pump and, hopefully, go for a ride. Oh and he painted the pump Ford Blue as well. Great guy.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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William777
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Posted: December-05-2020 at 10:44pm |
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Also thanks Pete and Keno for the info on the bearings and seals. I was able to purchase these items individually, saving $ vs. buying the whole rebuild kit. Thanks indeed gents!
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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KENO
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Posted: December-06-2020 at 4:41am |
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A rebuild and a grilled cheese sandwich
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William777
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Posted: December-13-2020 at 7:26pm |
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I chose to use the valve covers from the second block I bought from Portland. Now I'm routing the PCV valve to the port on the carb. The PCV valve is on the starboard. On the port cover there is a tube coming from the oil filler neck. I suppose this was connected to the air filter in the previous car app. Question is, if I tie these two openings in the two valve covers together, then route them to the port on the carb, will the lack of restriction on the oil filler, port side, cause the PCV valve not to open on the starboard side and allow fumes to build up under the starboard valve cover? Is this something to worry about? Grazzi amigos.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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William777
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Posted: December-14-2020 at 1:43am |
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Also, as I was removing the fuel pump in order to remove the oil idiot light sending unit that I was told at the auto parts store was the oil 'pressure' sending unit that was meant for my engine, I noticed fuel mixed with oil in a little pocket in the timing cover where the fuel pump attaches.. I'm thinking gas should never be there. I guess my fuel pump is now shot. Of course it is. So I was reading about buying a new one and the reviews of the one I found online are very mixed. One of them says it is a great pump if you want to burn alive in the boat with your family. So, maybe the fuel pump is the next rebuild.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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KENO
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Posted: December-14-2020 at 7:09am |
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There are different ways to ventilate your crankcase Bill, but what you're thinking of isn't one of them Here are a diagram of a "typical" PCV system and a few pictures The oil fill cap in all 3 pictures is the route for the PCV system to get fresh air into the crankcase. First picture shows a cap with a hose connection on top and the hose going up to the outside of the flame arrestor. Your new valve cover probably has the connection like the second engine picture and the hose goes from the neck up to the outside of the flame arrestor Third picture, no hose at all, the fill cap is vented and air goes in through it. Plenty of variations depending on different brand engines, but for your Ford, this should give you the idea By the way, how'd the boat do with the freshly rebuilt raw water pump ?     |
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KENO
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Posted: December-14-2020 at 7:31am |
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 Here's a picture of your fuel pump from earlier in this thread, ( it snuck in and photobombed your water pump picture) kinda not too clear but looks like a Carter M60389. You'll find mixed reviews on the newer non rebuildable ones they sell these days. You can get rebuild kits for the older ones or send it off to get rebuilt at someplace like Then and Now Automotive, click the link below If your pump has a ruptured diaphragm any leakage should be going thru that black hose that looks like it's hooked to metal tubing and up to the flame arrestor or carburetor. It shouldn't be puddling up anywhere. The USCG says that hose only needs to be clear vinyl tubing so you can actually see what's inside the hose like maybe gas or maybe nothing I don't think I'd condemn the pump just yet without a little more investigation, then again if it's old and from the 70's maybe you could just call it good preventive maintenance That would be up to you
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skutsch
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Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Posted: December-14-2020 at 9:44am |
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I second the motion on "Then and Now Automotive" I sent them a fuel pump off of my Dad's Y-block. It came back looking like new. I also asked them if they could source a "spare" and they were able to find a second one for me that also looked just like new. It was a few years ago, but I thought the price was VERY reasonable.
Pretty quick turnaround too!
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: December-14-2020 at 9:56am |
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I too recommend Then and Now. The last time I delt with them was for a fuel pump rebuild kit also on my 312 Y block. It worked so well that I ended up having to install a fuel pressure regulator. I discovered the YH side draft carbs don't like higher pressures. They are very happy at 4 PSI and weren't at 9 PSI.
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William777
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Posted: December-14-2020 at 11:19am |
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Thanks guys, Keno, the rebuild on the raw pump was great. I've only idled the engine at the dock. The temp hovered around 140*. And thanks to all for the rebuild recommendations! Also, thanks for the PCV explanation. I was at sea on that system. Had no idea the port on the oil filler was an in for fresh air!
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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William777
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Posted: April-06-2021 at 1:13pm |
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An update on the continuing "Perseverance" saga. After breaking off two intake manifold bolts, on two separate occasions, which means two rounds of removal and gasket replacements, I learned about ARP bolts. Those held the torque. I'm an expert on removing and replacing intake manifolds and gaskets now. So I get the engine started and I'm fiddling with the timing and carb adjustments trying to get it to idle somewhere below 1000RPM's. It was running smoothly at 1100 but would die when I turned the throttle? screw to lower the idle. Well, that required me to keep restarting and the last time I tried to start it the starter just wound up and was spinning freely. Upon inspection I noticed the starter gear had ground off the front of a couple teeth on the flywheel and was spinning in the gap. I then figured out that I had the wrong starter. Its "snout" is too short. This is a personal problem I've dealt with all my life, but there was always a work around. So, the teeth on the flywheel are still intact just behind where the BAD starter contacted them. So, I'm hoping the new longer snouted starter will engage them. Researching I found and bought this starter: APIMarine 10029LH. It has 19J1 stamped on the body. The web said it fits my boat. Can anyone confirm this? I'll be back at the lake this Saturday with high hopes. Hope everyone has a nice day
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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William777
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Posted: April-06-2021 at 1:37pm |
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I've now read that maybe the PCMs and the Commanders, which is what I have use different starters.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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William777
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Posted: April-06-2021 at 1:57pm |
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 The wiring looks totally different from the old as well. I'm not with the boat till this weekend to try it out though.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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8122pbrainard wrote: