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missing throttle detent |
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wetskier2000 
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Joined: September-07-2005 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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 Topic: missing throttle detentPosted: February-16-2021 at 9:28am |
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Our now repaired 1997 Nautique made it to Florida!!! One slightly dangerous issue upon launching... The throttle detent for idle seems to be missing for forward and reverse.. I really need to fix this before I end up on BroncoGuru's YouTube channel. Any ideas where to look. I suspect this is an issue on the throttle control end, not the motor end. anyone know?.... thanks!
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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fanofccfan
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Posted: February-17-2021 at 8:51am |
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my guess would be in the morse control. a little ball and spring mechanism is missing or not functioning correctly.
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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Timr71
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Posted: February-17-2021 at 4:03pm |
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My guess is that your 97 uses the Morse MV-2. You can maybe find a manual for that via the google. My boat had that same one, and I took it apart and rebuilt it about 6 years ago. I had to replace a couple of springs to get it working the way it was supposed to. But, when I had it apart, I noticed that there were grooves from wear on certain parts that were going to become bigger issues eventually.
My throttle control became difficult to manipulate last season. I knew that another tear down and rebuild was probably in my future this winter. Now with the season approaching, I decided to replace it. The SeaStar Solutions® CH2900P - MV-3 Series Side Mount Single Control Station for Competition Ski Boats - is the recommended replacement for the MV-2. So I bought one a few days ago. It's not here yet, so I can't say for sure exactly how well it will replace the old one. I do know that the screw pattern is different. We'll see how it goes. Good luck with yours.
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: February-17-2021 at 4:29pm |
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MV2 manual in our own reference section:
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KENO
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Posted: February-17-2021 at 8:30pm |
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Since we're all guessing, I'm gonna guess you have a Single MV Teleflex shifter based on the thread in the link below with a picture of the shifter/throttle control that you could compare to yours, courtesy of Mpost .  It has a link in that thread to the shifter on Nautiqueparts (third post in the thread) which was used from 1996 till 2012 An MV2 manual probably won't do a whole lot of good since the shifter setup is different but there's probably a ball and spring buried in there or maybe the remains of the ball and/or spring Marty (Mpost) could probably give you some more info if he sees this thread depending on how deep he got into the shifter.
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Mpost
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Posted: February-18-2021 at 9:02am |
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Looked thru my pictures and didnt have anything of the control in pieces. I do remember that the grease that was on the control was pretty stiff and sticky. dismantling and cleaning and adding new grease really helped a lot.
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84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft
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nobrainsd
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Posted: February-18-2021 at 12:39pm |
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I have a 94 Ski Nautique with what I believe is the Morse MV-2 control. As it is a salt water boat the throttle detent often gets a bit sticky with salt water running down my hands. I usually just add a few drops of Kroil penetrating oil on the detent lever without removing the assembly and it will free right up. Often, the detent lifter gets harder to use before the detent mechanism fails all together. Let's me know to lubricate the lever. I did have to replace the spring at one point. It had cracked. But the knob comes off very easily (one set screw on the bottom) and it wasn't difficult to drive out the detent lever pivot pin and replace the spring. I'm guessing the OP has figured it all out, but here are two pictures of the lever up and down for what it's worth :) If you have the teleflex none of this may apply! Do you have the push button built into the handle rather than off to the side? Still looks like the Teleflex model has the same detent lever.
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wetskier2000
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 9:22am |
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Thanks for the great info and pics... Not sure mine is exactly the same... I have the collar around the shift knob that needs to be raised to move from neutral into gear and the button on the lower end of the shift lever that can be pushed in to raise the engine RPMs and remain in neutral. Is that spring and detent lever in your pic for both neutral and idle???
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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KENO
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 9:44am |
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The one in Nobrainsd's picture is only for making sure you can't accidentally bump the boat into gear while it's idling in neutral like you mentioned.
You might have to be a little clearer on what your issue is. Can you accidentally bump it into gear or do you not get the little click as you move the lever into forward or reverse right before the engine speed increases from idle?
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nobrainsd
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 10:03am |
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The MorseV2 has a separate button off to the side for shifting disengagement. The detent lever I pictured above just slides into a notch on the mounting ring and keeps the throttle from being bumped forward un intentionally. As far as I can tell the Teleflex uses the same set up to lock the handle in the neutral position. If your release knob won't pull up easily the detent lever is probably binding. As I said I fix mine with some penetrating oil no problem. If your release knob moves, but the lever isn't engaging, then it is probably a broken spring. Here is a photo of a Teleflex handle. You can see the bright set pin showing on the lower handle body. That is for the detent lever. It is also easy to see the notch in the mounting ring where the detent lever engages. There are two notches 180 degrees apart so the control can be installed in two different orientations. If I'm not properly understanding your post you could have issues with the shift disengage mechanism, but I'm trying to answer what I think is the question :)
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wetskier2000
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 10:57am |
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I still have the straight up, neutral detent. It's the idle in forward and reverse detents that are missing.... Internal to the shifter??
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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nobrainsd
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 11:41am |
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Yes, the shifting disengagement button goes through the throttle control shaft on the teleflex. Looks like you get to have fun pulling the control to repair or replace.
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KENO
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 12:39pm |
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If that's the same thing as saying that you don't get the little click in either direction before the engine speed goes up like I asked earlier, it's got nothing to do with the button that lets you keep it in neutral and rev it as high as you want. But your problem is still internal and the shifter has to come out of the boat and come apart and like Mpost said earlier, you'll find some 20 plus year old thick grease and another ball and spring (or pieces of them) or to much wear on the detents A cleaning of all the old grease and adding new stuff will maybe be all that's needed. I don't think I'd be doing it in the middle of your winter vacation in Florida though because people have been known to drop little pieces parts, or do other things like get the levers on wrong and then shifting to Forward makes you go Backwards etc. Pictures as you go are your friend
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wetskier2000
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 1:24pm |
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I agree with the not during vacation sentiment, but close quarters docking and taking up the slack for a skier are a real challenge right now... I ordered a new unit... we'll see if I'm daring enough to attempt a field repair,,,
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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wetskier2000
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 1:25pm |
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.....of course every time it goes into gear above idle speed I cringe for the reverse gear....
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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Jonny Quest
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 1:41pm |
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You have more than just a throttle "detent" problem if the control is engaging the carburetor linkage BEFORE the transmission is engaged. You can correct this by properly adjusting the the control unit once you have corrected the detent problem. The following was copied from post number 26919:
1. Disconnect cables at trans and carb 2. At the Morse control disconnect both cables and rotate the brass pin connector so there is approx 1/8" of thread showing at the cable end. Reconnect both cables to the Morse control. 3.At the transmission, place the transmission bracket(the one that the cable attached to) in neutral. You may have to move it back and forth to feel exactly where neutral is but it should detent in the center of travel. Once you find a firm neutral connect your trans cable. 4. Step 4 is the magic. Go back to the Morse control and with the transmission engage button in, move the throttle lever to the forward engage detent. Just move it forward and it should lock into the forward position firmly, stop when it does so. Now go to the carb, adjust the cable connector so the throttle cable smoothly attaches to the carb stud without moving the throttle. You are done. This sequence works for me every time with NO tweaking if you do it right. The trick is you must have the throttle in the forward (or Reverse) detent BEFORE trying to attach the cable at the carb. JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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KENO
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 1:50pm |
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What he said, but I'd start by looking at the little barrel connector at the transmission shift lever for slop or excessive wear and then at the shifter do the same thing on that connector It wouldn't hurt to check the 2 connectors on the throttle cable also.
It sounds much more like an adjustment issue or connector wear issue than any kind of detent issue based on your last statement.
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KENO
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 2:13pm |
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Three of the connectors look like these from the Mpost link earlier in this thread. The one at your throttle body is a different style
These are in good shape If they look like there's a big groove in the small shaft with the hole, that's slop that may be causing your problem and adjustment will be hard to do because of the slop. It's hard to get good adjustment with even one bad connector out of the bunch You haven't by chance replaced a throttle cable or shift cable recently have you? The short connector was the right one for Mpost's unit. It was the original size.  Here's one that wore itself right apart  |
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wetskier2000
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 6:34pm |
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nope, steering cable replaced, but no new trans or throttle cables and no known changes to anything related to throttle or trans control...
I read thru the install guide.... hory clap... I suspect my odds are about zero that I could unbolt the old one, remove the cables and put them straight onto the new one without at least a fair amount of adjustment....
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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KENO
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Posted: February-19-2021 at 7:19pm |
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Check those cable ends mentioned earlier for slop/wear and there's a good chance you probably won't have to worry about installing a new shifter.
If no slop in any, then do the adjustment described. |
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nobrainsd
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Posted: February-20-2021 at 12:32pm |
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The end of the following video has an excellent graphic display of how the cables should work to get the proper relationship between gear shift and throttle movement on the cables.
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wetskier2000
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Posted: March-01-2021 at 4:52pm |
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we got pretty good at driving without the detents and not abusing the boat... I'm home now and will report in once I take things apart and inspect... I'm not sure I described the symptoms very well... Our boat has always lagged just a little going into gear... I have no idea if that's normal or not... But I train all the drivers to move the throttle to the detent (which is no longer there) and wait a second until the boat goes from neutral to forward then power up. Same deal in reverse... detent, wait, goes into gear then power up. I don't recall if my 1987 did the same thing, but pressed for a guess I would say it did....
You could just slam the throttle down and because the trans takes a second to engage, it would engage above idle speed with or without the detents...
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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Mpost
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Posted: March-02-2021 at 8:57am |
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It took both my wife and I a while to adjust to our 98 SN after moving from the 84 SN. Same delay as you describe when going into gear. Have also had to teach each driver as it is very different from the Mastercraft our bunch skis behind each week.
I have not been in the boat since September but I do not remember feeling a detent when going into gear. Just a spot in throw prior to throttle coming up that I move to and wait for the shift. It will be interesting to see what you find when you tear into yours. I may have to go thru mine again in the spring and find the detent
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84 SN Sold 98 SN Lund Pro V 1975 Alumacraft
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wetskier2000
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Posted: March-02-2021 at 9:09am |
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I removed the new unit from the box and played with it a bit... The new one is so much tighter in all respects from the original with almost 1600 hours... I think replacing it might be similar to replacing the steering cable where it's really nice to have one-finger steering back again...
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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Timr71
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Posted: March-02-2021 at 9:57am |
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Let's see a picture of what you picked up. I got a new throttle unit last week too, and I took it out of the box and messed with it in my lap. Anxious to get it in the boat and see how it functions.
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wetskier2000
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Posted: March-02-2021 at 1:54pm |
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 pics of new unit..   |
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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Timr71
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Posted: March-02-2021 at 3:35pm |
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Thanks! Looks great...but different than the model that I purchased. I'm not near my boat now, so I can't get started on the install yet. Good luck!
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wetskier2000
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Posted: March-03-2021 at 2:42pm |
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Ok, the new control is installed... It has detents where the old one did not, although they sure don't seem as pronounced IIRC. The new unit is much firmer overall and has no appreciable wiggle in the throttle handle like the old one. There was no wear on the any of the connectors at the throttle or the engine/trans. Maybe a testament to how well greased I've kept them? I dunno.... I think I can call this one done... We'll see if the wife agrees the first time she pulls it off the trailer.
 Now to reupholster the throttle pad with the new materials from C&S. What'd I do with the steamer and the stapler???
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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slmskrs
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Posted: June-20-2021 at 7:39pm |
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@Timr71 @wetskier2000 Where did you guys purchase your new Teleflex throttle? I see the box says Seastar Solutions (I'm assuming they make Teleflex). I have a '97 (same as wetskier2000). It was a project boat; my previous was a '96 that I purchased new and sold it when the '97 project boat dropped into my lap.
The throttle has always been a little 'jerky' when you first move the throttle (after going into gear). Not a problem pulling a skier, but a pain when trying to teach someone to ski or get up on a wakeboard when you need really precise throttle control at low RPMs. I replaced all cables when I got the boat, but the throttle wasn't any better, so a few months ago I replaced the throttle cable again with a larger diameter heavy duty one (that was supposed to make it smoother). It helped a little, but still no issue. No binding at the throttle body and no issue/problems with Perfect Pass. I've greased as much as I could from underneith, but it still has a little hesitency. I'm in the process of dismantling it and am stuck with how to dismantle it further. I'll put it in a new post since it isn't about the detent. But I'd like to know where you got your. i see from the picture of the plastic bag with the throttle on the left, inside the bag is a black plate. I assume that is for other applications since I'm sure both of you have the combing pad around the throttle lever. I looked at NautiqueParts and it's $400 for a new one, and I think it only needs lubrication internally. My '96 had 1,600hrs when I sold it and it worked a lot smoother than this one (I'm at 1,110 put 200hrs in a year and a half just at our course site). If there really is just wear, I'll spring for the $400, but would like to know where you got yours/how much. In the other post I'll see if anyone has dismantled it further or not. Thanks, Gordon
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Gordon '97 Ski Nautique, GT40
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wetskier2000
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Posted: June-20-2021 at 7:46pm |
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I bought it from NautiqueParts. The price was in the 'hood that you are seeing... I don't recall exactly...
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Current: 1997 Nautique
Previous: 1987 Nautique 1964 American Skier |
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wetskier2000 wrote: