Boats For Sale:
"Blown" Ford 351 |
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Gary S 
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Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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 Posted: May-10-2021 at 9:55pm |
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Uh oh giving Ken more ammo
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
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Posted: May-11-2021 at 6:45am |
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Or he could let Pete explain his lack of comprehension.
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
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Posted: May-11-2021 at 6:52am |
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All right William, could you spell this out a little clearer so Pete will understand, that the plate(whatever it's called) fits |
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: May-16-2021 at 1:39pm |
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: May-16-2021 at 1:51pm |
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Ok, so the o-ring on the left is a mystery part. I don't know where it came from. I fear it might be a MOFWS (magnet on the flywheel syndrome) On the blowup schematic it looks like part 83 which looks like it goes into part 84, which I did not disassemble. I don't see where else it could go. Also, the pic on the right is the inside of the pump. Do those groves look deep enough to cause a failure? Thanks all.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
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Posted: May-16-2021 at 2:52pm |
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Hey, I remember the MOWFS syndrome...........page 6 of this same thread, but the pictures have disappeared
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: May-24-2021 at 11:27pm |
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Bought a new pump and a rebuild kit. Al done. Now this: with the neutral button pushed in, engaging the transmission, the boat goes into forward and reverse and will stop the prop from spinning in neutral. With the neutral button pulled out and at idle all good but if I rev the engine somehow the transmission engages and the boat wants to go forward, strongly. The shifter is not moving at the transmission, it remains in the neutral position. The boat goes forward whether the throttle is increased by moving the shifter at the helm forwards or backwards towards the stern. Help please. A buildup of hydraulic pressure from the pump being revved forcing the transmission into some forward default mode? Still searching the net but am finding a lot of linkage solutions. Don't think that is my case. Seems to me the neutral button is doing what it's supposed to do.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
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Posted: May-25-2021 at 7:03am |
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It sounds like you got yourself a "dirty neutral" there Bill
Seems to me that you're right about the button doing what it's supposed to do. You have excess drag between the forward clutch plates and it'll turn the prop forward with no hydraulic pressure applied.. Is this happening with the boat in the water or on the trailer? If it's on the trailer, put it in the water and in a safe spot where you won't hit anything, rev it in neutral and see if the boat moves forward. It can spin the shaft with no drag from the water while on the trailer and look like it's really screaming along but when it's in the water, it may spin a lot less and not really make the boat move. If you're already describing what it does in the water, you may get some practice taking it apart again |
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: May-25-2021 at 7:27am |
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Thanks Keno, I had a dirty neutral in the old transmission. The prop would spin in neutral a little at idle. In this case it does not spin at idle, only when the engine is revved. It is happening in the water and the boat really wants to go. If it is excess friction(due to new clutch plates being installed?) could I find a way to jam the output flange somehow and rev in neutral(neutral button pulled out) and wear some of the excess friction off?
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: May-25-2021 at 1:00pm |
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I put new clutch plates in my 1978 Nautique and it worked right from the first start. You might carefully put a couple hours on it and see if it gets better but it should work already. I have seen dirty neutrals but the only spin slowly in neutral, nothing that would move the boat. I hope other members can offer better news.
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
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Posted: May-25-2021 at 10:30pm |
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I'd probably call Joe at FFI and talk to him some about your issues, (just the transmission ones.) Tell him to take it easy on you, 'cause you're a hairdresser who dabbles in transmission work
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: June-18-2021 at 1:21pm |
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Update,
I've taken the transmission out twice and rebuilt it. Still having the same issue with it driving forwards in neutral. Thought maybe the friction plates were too thick due to some manufacturing issues as is the trend these days with the crap coming in from the far east. So I rigged a stop on the output flange and revved it in neutral thinking it might wear a little material off the plates thereby freeing them up. Well, the pressure bent the bolt I used in the rig so it's not a small amount of forward drive there. Way more than a leaky neutral thing. So, after I sunk into another black hole of disappointment, I remembered hammering the air relief valve into its hole on the first rebuild. Thinking maybe I destroyed it and perhaps it's not operating properly. Maybe allowing air inside the tranny to cause the problem? I've ordered a new one. I guess the last possibility is a faulty control valve. Getting close to filling it with cement. I did buy a pressure tester. The pressure in forward and reverse are normal. The pressure in neutral is 0 at idle but when I rev it it buiulds to over 100psi. All pressures being read from the main pressure point on the top of the tranny near the output flange.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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tryathlete
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Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Posted: June-18-2021 at 1:28pm |
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It’s the middle of June. I don’t know what a lost season is worth to you, but I’d just go buy a rebuilt trans and get boating. You’ve served your sentence honorably and if you do sort this out, you’ll always have a spare.
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: June-18-2021 at 1:48pm |
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Thanks tryathelete. I'm prepared to blow this season off. The lake near me is at a 25 year low and half the ramps are already closed, people hitting all sorts of things in the low water. I went to a psychic who channels the Theta aliens and she did a scan of my boat. She said it was afraid of water. I haven't seen any reference to that in any of the many manuals I've researched. She suggested I talk to it and reassure it that the water is safe. I did that between the last two rebuilds to no avail. Maybe she scanned the wrong boat, she was 125 miles away from it at the time. Think if the last couple of things don't work I'll start a slush fund and buy one before next season.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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tryathlete
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Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Posted: June-18-2021 at 1:53pm |
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Yah low water is the new Covid 21.
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fanofccfan
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Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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Posted: June-18-2021 at 4:45pm |
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Maybe it is the name William as I would do the same things you speak of in trying anything to make something work! It also helps to be able to admit these shortcomings to the world via a forum that may or may not tear your head off explaining what we do wrong! I am just kidding of course about all of this! I wish you the best of luck and long live CCFAN!
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
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Posted: June-18-2021 at 8:46pm |
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Bill
You need to check pressure in 2 different places if you want to check your pressure in Neutral, Forward and Reverse. The spot you describe hooking the gauge to is reading line pressure and with the transmission in neutral at 600 ish RPM, it should read 120 or so PSI. If you shift to forward it should read the same. If it's lower, then you have forward clutch leakage. To read pressure to the reverse clutches there is a 1/4 inch pipe plug at the top front of the transmission in the forward reverse adapter . Here's a picture of a gauge hooked there. You'll have to rotate the picture 90 degrees. The transmission is on a test rig but it shows where the gauge gets hooked up. It should read the same 120 or so as the line pressure at 600 ish RPM. This one is about 135 or so at a little higher RPM  Now if you think the shift valve/pressure regulator is your problem after you viciously attacked it with an automotive jack a while back I have a suggestion. I just happen to know "this guy" who would send you a good shift valve/regulator so you could put it in the transmission and see if things are any different. Even if you have no water to launch it, you could sit in the driveway on the hose and do some "make believe boating" and see if it shifts in and out of the gears the way it should. It'll at least tell you if that's your problem and as an added bonus, it'll keep one of the more highly entertaining threads here on CCF alive and kickin'. Send me a PM with your address, and I can get after "that guy" to ship it to you on Monday, probably thru the USPS. If it works, you could keep it and send me back your bad one so I could entertain myself taking it apart Sounds like a fair trade to me, but then again I ain't too smart  Late addition..........another picture showing both test connections  |
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: June-19-2021 at 12:47am |
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Keno, that is a world class offer, tell that guy nice work when you see him.
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: June-19-2021 at 2:17am |
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Keno, tell that guy he's a gem! The gem of gems! What an amazing offer! It will be very nice to know if it's the valve. Thank you so much! I will go through the pressures tomorrow and report back. Thank you fanoccfan! William means stubbornation in some language!
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
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Posted: June-19-2021 at 6:24am |
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I wouldn't worry too much about getting the pressures, just send me your address.
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63 Skier
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Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Posted: June-19-2021 at 10:43am |
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Those last 17 people who gave Keno their address for some reason were never heard from again .....  Very nice offer Keno, you're a class act. William, hopefully this solves it. You are braver than me, I sent my old 1:1 out for rebuild when it failed, didn't even consider opening up the case, but my skills are limited. Hope you are able to get on the water somewhere this summer despite the drought. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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William777
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Posted: June-19-2021 at 12:33pm |
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Thank you 63skier, Keno has been incredibly helpful and he continues to amaze. As far as being brave goes, I thank you, but I always say, I have more time than money so I do a lot of things myself.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: June-19-2021 at 3:16pm |
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For the most part that is exactly why this forum exists, for the Do It Yourself Crowd.
( or cheap bastards like me )
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tryathlete
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Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Posted: June-19-2021 at 3:33pm |
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One thing is for sure. There’s no KENO on Facebook. The solutions people come up with there are hilarious.
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fanofccfan
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Joined: December-13-2009 Location: North Bend NE Status: Offline Points: 1781 |
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Posted: June-20-2021 at 10:06pm |
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+1^^^^
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2004 196 LE Ski 1969 Marauder 19 1978 Ski
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11127 |
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Posted: June-27-2021 at 5:51am |
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Well William
I see the USPS is kinda slackin' it when it comes to getting that package delivered. Tracking seems to say it's delayed and won't be there till sometime after today. I guess you'll be able to try things out next weekend
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KENO
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Posted: June-29-2021 at 3:27pm |
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William
It almost getting to be "getting worried time" You've probably checked the tracking like I've been doing, and got this message for a handful of days now Your package will arrive later than expected, but is still on its way. It is currently in transit to the next facility. I think that may be secret code for "we lost your package and don't have a clue where it might be right now.........but don't worry
" |
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: June-29-2021 at 5:27pm |
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Translation of that message is “we lost it but hope to find it”.
I guess the old days of trusting delivery rain or shine are over.
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William777
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Joined: October-21-2017 Location: Northern CA Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: June-29-2021 at 6:30pm |
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Lol!! I was thinking maybe it's on a truck instead of a plane? Who knows? No worries till Friday when I go back up to the lake, which is so low it's almost beyond boating anyway. A friend's boat sucked in so much muck, due to the algae plooms , that it clogged his intake and overheated his engine.
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1978 Martinique Ford 351 Windsor
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: June-29-2021 at 6:47pm |
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I thought Clear Lake was always low? Isn't that lake only like 20 feet deep at the deep part? Pretty lake and large lake but I always hear it is very shallow?
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William777 wrote: