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drip off exhaust manifold

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    Posted: June-24-2021 at 3:22pm
Hey guys

my old girl needs a little attention. Today after a morning on the lake I Notice a tiny/slow drip off the bottom of the exhaust manifold near the rear. At first I thought it was the manifolds drain cap just not tight enough and dripping a bit. Upon further inspection, on the under side of the manifold there is a little rust spot an inch or two foward of the drain cap.  Question..should I bother pulling the entire manifold off and replacing it at this point, or dry it good, flapper disk the area and put some JB weld on and finish out the season?

In the meantime I am going to look around for a PCM exhaust manifold to replace it with.   Any thoughts?

Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2021 at 4:09pm
I would pull the spark plugs on that side and make sure there is no water intrusion into any of the cylinders.  I replaced both manifolds and risers last year for a similar problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2021 at 4:13pm
did that, and there is no water intrusion into the cylinders, cylinders and plugs are fine In fact I just did an oil change as well, all looked OK. It's a very small water drip off the bottom of the outer edge of that manifold. 

Dan


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2021 at 4:23pm
JB it for now.  But it sounds like new manifolds and maybe risers are in your future.  I went with new everything just so I didn't have to worry about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2021 at 5:53pm
Flyweed

Speaking of JB Weld, how's that rudder of yours holding up?  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2021 at 6:40pm
Ken- JB weld on the rudder is holding up like day 1. no more cavitation, and no deterioration on those areas.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2021 at 6:42pm
Sean...Yeah, the rust spot is small, and the drip is tiny. It's almost July, so I think I'll use a flapper disk to remove the rust, then put some JB weld on it and call it good for this summer. This fall when I bring it home, I'll pull the exhaust manifolds and risers and replace.  They aren't super expensive, but places like Nautique Parts and SKiDim are currently on backorder for them. So I am going to place the order now, and hopefully they'll arrive sometime this summer. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2021 at 6:44pm
Ok, so question about manifold removal.  How easy (or not) is it to get the bolts out to remove the exhaust manifolds?  Mine are not rusted at all, but I'd say it's highly likely they have never been removed. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2021 at 7:13pm
If they are that clean they should come off with no trouble but you know that goes,maybe start lubing them now . On mine the socket heads are heavily corroded,why didn't these knuckle heads use stainless?? - I don't even want to touch them.....  When you get the new ones check the mating surface between the manifolds and risers right when you get them. I got some last fall which had a casting flaw- I lost a couple of more weeks straightening that all that out.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-24-2021 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by flyweed flyweed wrote:

Ok, so question about manifold removal.  How easy (or not) is it to get the bolts out to remove the exhaust manifolds?  Mine are not rusted at all, but I'd say it's highly likely they have never been removed. 



You never know till you try Wink

I'd try loosening and retightening them one at a time during the summer while the engine is hot..

The PCM torque spec was 18-24 ft lbs just to give you an idea how much force it should take to loosen them.

At least then you'll know if it's gonna be an easy job or not.

PS I bet you're kinda glad you didn't fork over the bucks for a new rudder now and maybe you still have some of the JB Weld hanging around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2021 at 12:13pm
Ken.  Yep JB weld for now, and replacement of exhaust manifolds in the Fall! 

Gary, not sure why they don't use Stainless. I assume it's because of "softness" or "hardness" I'd imagine Stainless is probably softer than say a Grade 8 bolt.   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2021 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by flyweed flyweed wrote:

Ken.  Yep JB weld for now, and replacement of exhaust manifolds in the Fall! 
Gary, not sure why they don't use Stainless. I assume it's because of "softness" or "hardness" I'd imagine Stainless is probably softer than say a Grade 8 bolt.   

A socket head cap screw is actually a grade 8.8 which has a tensile of 170,000psi. The only stainless SHCS that comes close is a grade A286 at a tensile of 120,00psi BUT, at roughly $15.00 each I doubt anyone would use them. 18-8 and 316 grades of SS SHCS come in at 70,000psi so maybe strength does come to play? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2021 at 6:01pm
I'd be willing to bet that they didn't use socket head cap screws for their strength but for their clearance,try fitting a regular bolt in there. Many vintage engines even used those double thick brass nuts with studs and they worked. PCM chose steel over stainless because they were cheaper. The very same reasons auto manufacturers deleted differential drain plugs,radiator drains,block drains,transmission drains etc.  Saving a dollar here and there adds up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-25-2021 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Originally posted by flyweed flyweed wrote:

Ken.  Yep JB weld for now, and replacement of exhaust manifolds in the Fall! 
Gary, not sure why they don't use Stainless. I assume it's because of "softness" or "hardness" I'd imagine Stainless is probably softer than say a Grade 8 bolt.   

A socket head cap screw is actually a grade 8.8 which has a tensile of 170,000psi. The only stainless SHCS that comes close is a grade A286 at a tensile of 120,00psi BUT, at roughly $15.00 each I doubt anyone would use them. 18-8 and 316 grades of SS SHCS come in at 70,000psi so maybe strength does come to play? 

So Pete...... I'm mildly confused here

You're presumably talking about a metric cap screw since you're throwing around terms like Grade 8.8 ( which is actually Class 8.8)

Or are you talking about an SAE threaded cap screw that would have a Grade number assigned to it and there is no SAE Grade 8.8

Or are you mixing together SAE and metric terminology.

How does a Class 8.8 metric bolt compare to a good ole' American Grade 5 or a Grade 8

Unconfuse me Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-26-2021 at 7:01am
Here's what PCM sells these days for Ford exhaust manifold bolts


Will ya look at that,,,,,,,,they're stainless steel and the price isn't terrible 

Maybe Pete will tell you everything he "knows" about their tensile strength, maybe you shouldn't worry about it  and just use them if you want toWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-27-2021 at 6:08pm
well look at that. Damn. I see that SkiDim also offers a full set of replacement bolts, gaskets, plus brass fittings, caps etc for $129, enough to do both sides.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2021 at 7:16am
Originally posted by flyweed flyweed wrote:

well look at that. Damn. I see that SkiDim also offers a full set of replacement bolts, gaskets, plus brass fittings, caps etc for $129, enough to do both sides.  


You'll also need a pair of exhaust manifold to head gaskets instructions whenever you put new manifolds on.

You might get to reading the SkiDim description of the exhaust gaskets that tells you to install the gaskets with the shiny metallic side toward the engine and the felt side toward the manifold. And it sure looks like a FelPro number stamped into the gasket they sell..

Then again, you might read some FelPro gasket installation instructions for their MS90000 SBF exhaust gaskets (or any of their metallic faced on one side exhaust gaskets) that tell you to install them with the shiny side out towards the manifold

Who you gonna believe?

Does it really matter which way they go?

You probably have months to think about it, but I'd look at what you take off and if in doubt go with instructions from the people who make the gaskets Wink

Edit.............a number of years later..........SkiDim changed their wording to agree with FelPro's wording


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2021 at 7:25am
Which way to face the gasket?  From the Felpro instuctions: Logical with our cast manifolds?

"When installing Fel-Pro exhaust manifold gaskets, if there is a smooth, metallic side and a composite side, the metallic side should be installed facing out, meaning toward the exhaust manifold. This smooth surface of the shiny side will allow the flange of the exhaust manifold to slide as it expands and contracts during heat cycling from engine operation."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2021 at 7:30am
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

Which way to face the gasket?  From the Felpro instuctions: Logical with our cast manifolds?



So are you agreeing with the Felpro instructions or questioning them with your question quoted above Pete?

Of course it's logical

Look at all those cars and trucks out there with cast manifolds
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-28-2021 at 7:48am
What I see is a 10 dollar price increase in 12 hours to an already inflated price for a handful of rebranded bolts, 4 gaskets and some miscellaneous parts you already probably have.
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