Boats For Sale:
Wyerz - no start hot |
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GottaSki 
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Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
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 Topic: Wyerz - no start hotPosted: August-17-2021 at 8:49am |
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Worked on a friend's '85 SN 454 last night, due to intermittent starting issue... Sharing results for posterity here.. Never an issue cranking, but not firing 10-15 minutes after a hot shutdown due to no spark. Witnessed it once catch upon returning key to run from start, so sourced a new keyswitch, but also suspected the pertronix is not seeing best voltage to function while cranking. Battery is large as can fit, and not deep cycle Pertronix ( first gen) is seeing full voltage available and the coil hot sees the resistor, as directed about four connections needed snugging up, at starter relay, the main breaker, and the at the 10ga wire terminal on the buss at the dash Additionally, and reason for posting, is the following.... the boat has 10ga from engine to dash bus - that is good HOWEVER, from the ignition breaker switch on dash, there is only a 6" 16 Ga jumper wire to the keyswitch input hot. Also, the run terminal was also only a 16gauge wire that daisychained to two other gauges, before it finally exited into the bundle and QD's, out to the engine So, the whole ignition and dash runs off a single 16 gauge wire, to three other 16 gauge wires, daisy chained using 3-4 crimp terminals before going out to do broom broom stuff this appeared to me to be factory wiring, unmolested The keyswitch was replaced The weak jumper from IGNITION breakerswitch to IG HOT was replaced with a doubled-up 12 gauge wires in parallel the purple wire out to the bundle, was snipped from its last daisy chained gauge's terminal, and now goes straight to RUN on keyswitch My friend reports it now starts better than it ever has, since he's owned it from new Perhaps this will help you, and we'll likely keep hearing about starting issues from these vintage boats, as this was untouched factory wiring Note that this engine is manual choke, so the voltage drop would be even worse with a more typical electric choke config
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
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Jonny Quest
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Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2995 |
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Posted: August-17-2021 at 10:23am |
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Dat Tom guy reely nose his wyerz n stuff good.
JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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GottaSki
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Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
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Posted: August-17-2021 at 12:19pm |
Didn't find anything wired backerds
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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desertskier
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Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1116 |
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Posted: August-17-2021 at 2:46pm |
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Thought about installing a relay at the engine?
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92 SN - Owned since 93
99 Pro Air 89 SN - Went to live on a lake in Texas 75 Donzi 16 - Sold in 93 |
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GottaSki
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Posted: August-17-2021 at 5:58pm |
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This engine, no. It has a manual choke 850 DP. If there is not enough juice to power the pertronix, and alternator field, bigger problems existed, and were remedied. Powering an accessory relay equates the field energize, so no gain.
Powering a pertronix on a relay, demonstrates inducing the same dead-crank condition, with occasionally catching upon release of the key. Although on my boat, I do utilize a 20a relay for the choke and field energize, to let the ignitor see all it can at startup, as the choke is not trivial current. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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Gary S
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Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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Posted: August-17-2021 at 7:24pm |
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It's the blue wire- it's always the blue one
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desertskier
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Posted: August-17-2021 at 9:03pm |
No gain since you already added some wires in the dash but a relay in the purple wire ignition circuit would eliminate the need for the new dash wires. Same results without relying on the dash wiring for your ignition operating voltage except enough to keep the relay energized. Was there a reason you didn't run everything through the relay on your boat?
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92 SN - Owned since 93
99 Pro Air 89 SN - Went to live on a lake in Texas 75 Donzi 16 - Sold in 93 |
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11155 |
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Posted: August-18-2021 at 8:04am |
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Sounds to me like the "I" terminal needs to creep into this conversation about electronic ignition and better starts, hot cold or somewhere in between
Also sounds to me like CC must have wired that boat on a Wednesday, that's the day they just used whatever leftover wiring was hanging around  If that really was a 16 gauge wire and original, it was a mistake. The purple ignition wire mentioned in the first post is a 12 gauge wire from the keyswitch back to the engine for comparison purposes Somebody else with a same era SN needs to climb under the dash and see what that wire to the keyswitch from the breaker is
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GottaSki
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Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
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Posted: August-18-2021 at 8:14am |
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Yes,
i found that during crank, with ignition on a relay,, the continuous duty accessory relay i was using, (and still using 20 years later) a hella, was just on the edge of actuating during crank, causing occasional crank no fire till release key. since then the starter has been replaced with a perm magnet starter, it would probably be ok now. I don't care to. But i can switch back and forth between direct and relayed ignition by moving one connector on terminal block on the back of the engine. but i know if i had a marginal battery for any reason, i'd be stuck no start bacuse the ignition relay woudn't close during crank. Hence i go direct on the ignition. I didn't rewire his dash, just replaced a 6" jumper, and moved to purple wire direct to the keyswitch as it should have been In my boat's case, Since my purple is only powering the relay (for choke and alt), the pertronix, and the MSD activate, no coil load is on the purple wire.. The MSD has a thick gauge direct BAT connection. the pertronix only triggers the MSD input high impedance input, so very little current draw is on the purple wire. If my purple wire ever can't manage that, then it can't flip a relay any better. |
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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GottaSki
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Posted: August-18-2021 at 8:19am |
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Yes, i concur Ken, the I term has some merit for smart use here
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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GottaSki
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Posted: August-18-2021 at 8:20am |
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Heh, yes Gary!,
"the blue wire with the white stripe, NOT the white wire with the blue stripe."
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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desertskier
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Joined: December-19-2006 Location: Az Status: Offline Points: 1116 |
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Posted: August-18-2021 at 10:35am |
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I wasn't going to bring it up but since Ken mentioned it my "I" terminal is wired to the ignition relay coil. Not because I thought it was necessary but since it was already connected in the harness I figured it wouldn't hurt to leave it. I rewired the dash and added a relay at the engine for the ignition circuit when I installed the DUI. The factory dash wiring in the '92 was all 16 gauge. Long time ago I did the same thing and doubled up the wire from the ignition breaker to the key switch.
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92 SN - Owned since 93
99 Pro Air 89 SN - Went to live on a lake in Texas 75 Donzi 16 - Sold in 93 |
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GottaSki
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Joined: April-21-2005 Location: NE CT Status: Offline Points: 3365 |
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Posted: August-18-2021 at 10:51am |
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oh that is clever
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"There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worthwhile as messing around with boats...simply messing."
River Rat to Mole |
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8122pbrainard
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Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Posted: August-18-2021 at 11:07am |
Quiz: Is that the tip or ring?
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GottaSki wrote: