Diagnosis for running hot |
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bfootr
Senior Member Joined: March-04-2019 Location: Benson, NC Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Posted: June-26-2022 at 10:44pm |
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When I start the engine, the temp gauge drops down to the low end and slowly comes up as the engine warms up. I check the things you listed and report back. Thank you!
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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This is like a good murder mystery, lots of twists and turns and new info Assuming your 89 has VDO gauges, your temp gauge probably has a range of 100 to 220. Like you said it should go downscale when the boat is off, not upscale. If your gauge is pegged high before you start the engine, what happens to it as soon as you start the engine, does it drop down to the low end and slowly come up as the engine warms up? Or work it's way down to 200 ish from the high peg at 220 A couple of things you could do are 1) using a wire with a couple of alligator clips, hook one end to your temperature sensor where the tan wire attaches, (no need to remove the tan wire) hook the other end to a good clean ground on the engine. Now turn the key to run and see what the gauge does. Normally with the gauge at the bottom peg, when you have the sender grounded with the test wire, it will peg high as soon as the key is in Run. From the sound of things, yours might go from upscale to downscale, what yours does, would be good info to know. 2) after that, remove the test wire and unhook the tan wire , turn the key to Run and describe what your gauge does. Normally it would be pegged low and it would stay there Those things will tell you if your gauge is maybe broken or wired wrong And like a good Columbo mystery,,,,,,,,,,,,,just one more question , have you checked the connections under the dash that you cut and crimped a few years ago? And maybe one more, what does your voltmeter on the dash read when the engine is running? |
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Might verify the grounds to your dash pod.
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bfootr
Senior Member Joined: March-04-2019 Location: Benson, NC Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Okay. Found the connector. There was some corrosion around a couple of the pins (though not around the tan wire pin). Cleaned both male and female ends well with electronic cleaner and a small wire brush. Reconnected it, started the boat with the water bucket connected, and gauge showed over 200 degrees and alarm sounded within 1-2 minutes. Engine did not feel that hot and water was belching well out the back.
Another piece of the puzzle that I noticed yesterday while on the lake. In addition to the temp gauge, the oil pressure gauge started bouncing around 80 PSI and the alarm light was on next to it (along with the temp gauge light). Has always ran around 80 PSI on oil pressure. Don’t know if the two issues are related somehow. Boat seems to be running fine otherwise. |
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bfootr
Senior Member Joined: March-04-2019 Location: Benson, NC Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Thank you so much. I’ll check it out and respond back. I did notice that when the boat is off, the temp gauge is pegged to the far right (and not to the far left as I would think).
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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If the tan wire is grounded, it'll peg the gauge, but you're not pegged.
A broken wire will make it peg low, not your case either. But corroded conditions or a couple of wires making contact that shouldn't be can cause just plain wierd issues. You could check the power, ground and the sending unit connections at the gauge too, to make sure they're tight and clean, but your problem seems to be sender or wiring running up to the gauge/alarm box since the gauge reads 200 ish and that about where the alarm goes off. (about 205 degrees) And 2 senders reading about the same makes me think wiring/wiring connections are causing the high reading.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Here's a picture or 2 and some discussion of the connector. Like Uncle Buck's boat, you may have only 7 wires on the boat side since you have a voltmeter on the dash.
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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If the sending unit wire is shorted to ground somewhere would that make it show a Hot or Cold Temp? Maybe he just has a frayed wire or the bad connection you pointed out. Bfootr, Ken was referring to the electrical connection at the rear of your engine, 8 wires in one plug not your spark plug wires.
Mark
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bfootr
Senior Member Joined: March-04-2019 Location: Benson, NC Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Thank you. So I’m clear, are you referring to spark plug #8 or an 8 pin connector or something else. Also, had the boat out on the lake tonight and temps (on the gauge) were running close to 250 with the alarm sounding but IR meter temps showed ~140 -150. Engine temp seemed somewhat normal to me as I felt around - Nothing seemed extremely hot.
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Your sender cross references to the PCM unit for that engine. It's PCM part number is R02003.
It should work right. Right now the gauge and the alarm box are both getting the same high temperature signal from the sender One thing that could be checked is the 8 plug connector at the back of the engine to make sure all the plugs are clean. The tan wire is the one that feeds the alarm box and the gauge. One thing to watch out for is that if that 8 plug connector is all corroded and ugly looking, you might cause more problems than you have now if wires and connectors start falling apart. as you wiggle or pull it apart. If that's the case, just consider yourself lucky that you found the corrosion or wire issues before they stranded you somewhere and make some repairs to ensure good connections.
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bfootr
Senior Member Joined: March-04-2019 Location: Benson, NC Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Part # 64258 97258A 1
Brand: Marine Pro I did notice the temps on the gauge were a little higher once I installed the new sending unit. |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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Since you already replaced the sending unit, what was the part number of the new one that you put in?
The sending unit feeds both the gauge and the alarm box under the dash. The resistance range of the sender needs to be matched to the gauge and alarm box, otherwise your readings won't be accurate.
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Sounds like you need a new Temp Sender. The gauge gets information from the Sender.
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bfootr
Senior Member Joined: March-04-2019 Location: Benson, NC Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Circling back on my thread here. First time on the lake this season (what a shame). Gauge still showing over 200 degrees and alarm sounds. Replaced the temp sending unit. Also, as suggested, checked surface temperature near temp sending unit with an IR laser meter and shows a much better 140 degrees. So I guess I have a bad temp gauge. Would a bad temp gauge cause the alarm to sound or do they work independent of each other? TIA
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uncle-buck
Senior Member Joined: June-14-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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and here's what one looks like:
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uncle-buck
Senior Member Joined: June-14-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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See photo below. I would check it after you have confirmed high engine temps with an IR thermometer as recommended by JQ and are certain there are no air leaks in the cooling system (including the rubber o-ring for the sea strainer bowl).
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bfootr
Senior Member Joined: March-04-2019 Location: Benson, NC Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Didn’t know there was an engine circulation pump. Where is that? |
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Gary S
Grand Poobah Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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It could if your not the original owner and not sure what the PO did. My PCM powered saltwater boats pump started leaking. When I pulled it I found out it was an automotive pump and most of the steel impeller blades were gone. Never had and overheat problem though. Some brands of automotive pumps have plastic impellers as well,I have heard of them slipping/spinning on the shafts.
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uncle-buck
Senior Member Joined: June-14-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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Does it make sense to also check the engine's circulation pump?
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bfootr
Senior Member Joined: March-04-2019 Location: Benson, NC Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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The pump is installed correctly. I’ll check temps with an IR gun and report back. Thanks so much for the advice! CCF is such a great resource!
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MrMcD
Grand Poobah Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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The raw water pump must be correctly installed or he would have total overheat, meltdown. I embarrassed myself switching my raw water pump backwards and proved this point is exactly correct. With the Raw Water Pump reversed you have no cooling, no water circulation. They overheat quickly and the temps keep climbing. Trust Me I checked. There is a post on this forum if you wish to verify.
As coached, use the IR Gun, one of the best tools you will add to your garage. You will find you use it for many things once you own one. Checking brakes, Exhaust manifolds, Home AC performance and your engine cooling system. A great tool to have.
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Jonny Quest
Grand Poobah Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Offline Points: 2979 |
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+1 on what Tim says. The I.R. temp gun is a great tool. You also may have a temp sending unit problem. In my 1994, I had a couple of water temp sending units go bad. At first, I didn't use the I.R. temp gun as I should have done, but instead, I started throwing parts at the engine (thermostat and impeller). No joy, the temp gauge still showed 190-200 degrees. I changed the temp sending unit and the gauge showed a rock-solid 160...for about 1 season. Then, at the beginning of the following year, the temp gauge again was showing 190-200 degrees again. This time, I had the I.R. temp gun in the boat. I ran a series of temp probes with the I.R. gun and it showed that the intake manifold area near the temp sending unit was running between 155 and 165 degrees. So, I put in another new sending unit and the temp gauge stayed at 160 degrees until I sold the boat. JQ
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2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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uncle-buck
Senior Member Joined: June-14-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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Are you pretty sure the raw water pump is installed correctly and not upside down?
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11112 |
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See the blue plug, the temperature sending unit is normally screwed in that hole, with a tan wire attached to it. Like mentioned, shoot that area with an IR thermometer Sounds like it might be a springtime thing since you're winterized The picture will make more sense if you rotate it 90 degrees clockwise
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21186 |
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I’d confirm the actual temps before proceeding… a cheap IR thermometer comes in handy. Shoot the temp sender area- will be right near the thermostat housing area on the intake (engine water exit).
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bfootr
Senior Member Joined: March-04-2019 Location: Benson, NC Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Hello. My 89' SN with 351W is running hot recently; around 200 degrees most of the time. Use to run around 180 degrees which I thought was a little high as well. A little history. I replace my impeller every year and just put a new one in a month or so ago. I have also replaced the thermostat (142 degree model). I have checked for suction leaks and obstructions from the strainer to the thermostat and can't find any broken off impeller vanes that could be restricting water flow. Seals and hoses seam to be fine (hoses are relatively new also). I've done the bucket test and it sucks down water quickly at idle - slightly more quickly than the hose can refill. I have pulled the engine drain plugs out of the block, manifolds ,and j-tube on the pump (to winterize) and didn't see any evidence of obstructions there either. What am I missing? Bad temp sensor and or gauge? Not sure where the sensor is located. Any other advice on what else to check would be most appreciated! TIA! -Gene
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