Acceleration issues.

 

In anticipation of receiving the new fuel pump I went ahead and removed the old fuel pump. When pulling out the pump what also followed where a number of pieces as you can see below. 

The first two pieces next to the fuel pump are parts of the spring which are obviously broken. After close inspection, it appears that these two pieces have been broken for quite sometime and not just recently. I am assuming that the third piece is part of the pump assembly that would have ridden on the spring. 

Now, the fourth piece (far right) does not appear to have anything to do with the fuel pump and I think I know where it may have come from. When I removed the original distributor way back before beginning this post (before installing DUI distributor) I noticed that one of the teeth on the distributor gear was chipped. This looks like a perfect puzzle piece fit for that old chip. Could be wrong but it sure looks like it. 

I have just a couple quick questions. Would a fuel pump with a broken spring even pump (because apparently this one did at least a bit)? Also, it appears that when installing the new pump that the pump lever rests under the cam that can be seen through the port for the fuel pump, is that correct? It doesn't ride under a lifter/rod like in a Chevrolet, or am I not seeing the lifter/rod? Do I need to grease the new pump lever at all or will the engine oil take care of that? I know my technical terms may be off but hopefully I'm close enough to make sense.

The new fuel pump has arrived so I should be able to get it installed soon and report back. Hopefully after now finding something physically wrong/broken a final solution has been found. Although at this point I will believe it when I see it on the water under load and not requiring a tow.

Thank you again for everyone's help, I really appreciate it. 

JQ was able to walk me through visually confirming that there is fuel delivery which there is through the accelerator pump when the throttle is depressed. Also that I have spark to each cylinder through using an in-line spark test light. All checked out. In checking the timing, there appears to be some inconsistencies that I need to confirm. The timing now seems way off (which is really strange) but I need to confirm and I will be working on that and will report back as soon as I can get some of the timing numbers confirmed. Thank you JQ! I guess the good news is the new fuel pump appears to be working even if the boat isn't starting. I'll take small victories where I can get them at this point. 

There is no more leaking in primaries. When I adjusted the float back down and after a few more attempts at starting the float level is now back to the middle of the primary window and seems to be holding steady now with no additional leaking in the primaries.

After confirming fuel and spark, I moved back to checking the timing again while turning it over although it is not starting. It appears that the timing is now at 90*. There is a Mr. Gasket timing tape on the harmonic balancer, I think the harmonic balancer is what I'm looking at.  I did it a few times because I was so confused. I had set the initial timing myself at 12* as posted earlier and I had also confirmed the TDC marking with TDC at #1. So it was all good at one point. The distributor is securely in place with the nut that holds it in place also secure as well. The distributor doesn't have appeared to have moved.

Had some weather move through so had to take a break for now. Next I am going to go back and check TDC again at #1 and see what the timing mark says now and go from there.  Thoughts?

For no start and a clank or pop when it died?   Not much to guess with.

When things don't work for me I go back to the basics.   

Verify compression in all 8 cylinders.  Does not matter if you did this one week ago, something changed and you are trying to find what changed.  If you have good compression on all 8 you know your valves are opening and sealing as intended so that tells you the timing chain and cam are spinning as intended and rules out many other potential issues.

On your timing, if static timing, engine not running is set to #1 at TDC and your distributor rotor is pointing at #1 on the cap Timing is close enough to start the engine, spin the engine over with the dist cap off just to verify the rotor is spinning as it should.

If it starts now I would make sure the Timing light is connected to the #1 cylinder and set the initial timing to 8-10*.  Next with the timing light still connected engine running watch your timing marks as you raise the RPM slowly and see at what RPM the timing stops advancing.  As you rev and slow the engine speed the timing should advance and retard smoothly and exactly the same every single time in sync with RPM.  Full advance is usually somewhere between 2,800 and 4,000 RPM.  Keep raising the RPM till the timing stops advancing and is stable.  So if you think it quit advancing at 3,500 take it up to 4,000 just to make sure you are correct.  If you have a dial back timing light this will also let you know exactly how much timing the engine is getting at what RPM.  Normally you will see between 32 and 36* fully advanced.   You stated timing was  90* off, sounds like you may have grabbed another wire by mistake.  An 8 cylinder engine fires every 90* of rotation so being 90* off might just be wrong wire as a source and that wire would be right next to your #1 wire location so either the wire left or right of #1 on your cap.

If it is getting spark and your Spark is at the right time, It is getting Air, (the choke is wide open)  and has compression it should start right up.

When you find out which part is missing/no longer there, you know what to do next.

Just wondering out loud....how did you perform this test?

On a side note:  What lake do you go to?  I am going to Saguaro tomorrow for a day trip and will be at Apache for Labor Day.  Maybe you need a old retired guy to help.

Great suggestions! The issues of dying on the lake, then no fuel in the primary bowl, doesn't want to re-start and then finding the failing fuel pump after getting it back home. That is a lot of failures in a very short period of time to be completely unrelated. I agree with you that the way it died doesn't sound fuel related with no sputters etc. 

I do have the old carb and it did at least start the boat and ran on the trailer so that's a great idea as well. After the compression test is done (assuming it's good), then I will try some more fuel down the carb. If that doesn't work then swapping out the carb is the plan!

Typically have been going to Lake Pleasant for now since I know they have a tow boat until find some reliability.  I will gladly accept the help of an "old retired guy" as you say. That is extremely generous of you and I really appreciate the offer. I would not feel right taking time away from your boat days or your time on the water until I get my due diligence done first with the compression and possible carb swap as you wisely suggested. If both of those fail to provide some answers then I will absolutely take you up on that offer and head your way for assistance. I know my trailer works.  It may take me a bit to get these done with some other priorities pending but I will update as soon as I do. 

Also, regarding your trip to Apache, I recall someone mentioning that one of the ways into Apache had been washed out and I thought the only way in was from the Roosevelt side. I could be wrong and they may have made some repairs but I would check just to make sure for your trip. Enjoy the lakes and thanks again!

It's a DUI Ford distributor and you can see the plate that locks the 8 legged pickup coil in position so it can't move. The pickup coil moves if you have vacuum advance like in an automotive distributor and the plate is one part of the "conversion" to a marine distributor.

If anything is broken so that the pickup can move, it has about 45 degrees of movement which just happens to correlate to 90 degrees of timing at the crankshaft

Probably a long, long shot but it's free and easy to check 

Hey All,

I apologize for the delay in getting the compression check done but the results are in...and I don't think it's going to be good.

All of the cylinders registered between 150 and 160 psi except cylinder number 7 which registered at 90 . When a compression check was done by the mechanic when the DUI was installed, before the latest stall on the lake, his notes indicated number 7 was at 145. I should also mention that his earlier numbers where recorded at between 140-150 for all cylinders. So there is a bit of difference between his compression tester and my new one so it doesn't appear that cylinder 7 was failing previously.

I was so hoping that I just failed to seat the compression tester correctly on number 7, but after three attempts, I had to accept the reality that 90 was the number. 

Is this considered catastrophic failure requiring a full rebuild? If so, I can't wait for the GF look on that news. Any ideas how bad this is or could be and why it would lose compression so fast in one cylinder? Does this lack of compression in one cylinder explain the stall and failure to now start? Sorry for all the questions but this appears to be going down a whole new road I wasn't expecting and I am just trying to figure out the best next step forward. Give me the news, I can take it.

Thanks everyone.