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351 W, Emulsified Oil |
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jrparis 
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Joined: October-18-2023 Location: Rhode Island Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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 Topic: 351 W, Emulsified OilPosted: January-05-2024 at 2:04pm |
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I purchased a beautiful 1988 Fish Nautique 23 this past summer. What a fun boat! However I ran across a pretty brutal engine issue and am looking for advice on the path forward and to understand what may have been the cause. There appears to have been water/oil mixing somewhere which got emulsified oil all over the engine. I started by trying to clean/pump as much oil out as possible as well as removing the risers and manifolds. It looks possible that water may have been leaking into the exhaust risers and manifold but I’m still unsure how it would start mixing with the oil. Does anyone have any suggestions or theories on what could be the root cause of the issue? My first thought is headgasket? We had been seeing some white smoke/ steam coming from the exhaust since I bought it, up until this issue occurred. I know I have a long journey of cleaning and repair ahead of me but any advice would be much appreciated. As it has sat with the remaining emulsified oil in it for some time now, I’m expecting to likely replace it with a new long block but want to understand what went wrong first. I’m looking to do most of the work myself and with friends if possible as I recently spent a lot on a transmission/damper plate repair. Engine is a PCM 351W from 1988 I believe.
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: January-06-2024 at 3:53am |
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Welcome aboard and hope you get the issue figured out quickly.
We have seen issues with heat riser failures allowing oil to get into the oil. Many times it is due to rust in the manifolds sometimes enhanced by salt water use. How, I think it is small amounts of water dripping into the combustion chamber getting compressed by the piston and blowing past the rings into the oil pan. A drop or two with every combustion can add up over time. How long after oil change does it take to create the milkshake in your oil pan? Another possible issue is the front Water Pump plate. The front cover if it is corroded you might have coolant entering from the front of the engine directly into your oil/internal block. https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-6059-D351 Your water pump bolts to this front cover.
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Tim D
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Joined: August-23-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2641 |
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Posted: January-06-2024 at 3:04pm |
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Take the valve covers off and pour kerosene down both sides. That will chase out the water. Then chase the kerosene out with oil. Does it have a heat exchanger closed system on the engine? Does it have the water hose flush hookup on the stern?
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Tim D
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63 Skier
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Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Posted: January-16-2024 at 5:25pm |
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I'd add that the engine isn't automatically toast because of the milkshake being in there. First you obviously have to find the problem, good suggestions made on where to look. Once fixed, if you clean up with kero as Tim suggested, or I have used Rislone for the same purpose, then full oil change, run it, full oil change, you can get the milkshake out of there without too much problem. A compression test would then tell a lot about the health of the engine.
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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jrparis
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Joined: October-18-2023 Location: Rhode Island Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: January-16-2024 at 5:45pm |
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Thanks for all the great responses! Unfortunately it appears that we left the milkshake in there a bit too long before getting it out and its seized up. Looking at the cylinder walls with a borescope, they got quite rusty quite quickly.
My co-owner and I are going to bite the bullet and replace the long block as well as the exhaust manifold and risers. After some searching we're looking at getting it from Mabco. Does anyone have suggestions on worthwhile upgrades while we're at it? And is this the best place to get a long block from, I understand re-manufactured is pretty much the only option these days? |
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11113 |
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Posted: January-17-2024 at 7:55am |
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Since there's a fair amount of salt water in the Rhode island area, was this a salt water engine?
Looking at your Mabbco link, I don't know what options you may or may not be thinking about, but don't do any thinking about getting a High Volume Oil Pump, because it doesn't fit in your PCM oil pan and you don't need it anyways. You'll need to reuse the oil pump pickup that's in your engine now so that it's sucking from the right spot in your PCM pan. The timing cover MrMcD referenced above is only an example of a 351w cover. It's not one that you would want. Your PCM cover is cast iron and provides a mounting spot for the raw water pump mounting bracket, so inspecting yours and reusing it if it's in good shape is the best approach since you can't find a new one these days, but used ones show up periodically in places like EBAY or somebody here on CCF might have one if yours is bad. Your intake manifold can rust through in the water passage area going to the thermostat housing and add lots of water to your oil pretty easily just like a cracked block or like you mentioned, maybe a bad head gasket Judging by the picture of all the emulsified oil on top of your intake, you have a lot of water in your oil if it was coming out and getting all over the top of the engine like the picture shows
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jrparis
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Joined: October-18-2023 Location: Rhode Island Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Posted: January-17-2024 at 4:55pm |
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Hi Keno. Yes we use the boat exclusively in salt water. Last year we were keeping it a combination of moored, anchored and docked so it was not flushed very often. This coming year however we plan to try to flush it after every use.
Thanks for the advice, will make sure not to get the oil pump! The currently plan is to try to clean and reuse all the accessories (carb, alternator, valve covers, pumps, pans, belts, etc) unless we see a good reason to replace/ improve one. As far as I know our water pump still works so fingers are crossed. I haven't taken the intake manifold off yet, only the exhaust manifold so I will check that when I do and replace if necessary. Thank you for the heads up
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KENO
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Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11113 |
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Posted: January-17-2024 at 7:26pm |
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I think that if I was using the boat exclusively in salt water, I'd look into a Fresh Water Cooling system for the engine to make both your life and the engine's life easier.
Parts or kits to do this to a 351 are scarce and getting scarcer. Not many people here on CCF have engines run in salt water, but there are a few that might give you some advice. One thing you could do is check out/ join the forum in the link below. Different brand of old boats, lots of them used in salt water and they won't care that you have a Fish Nautique. |
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Fl Inboards
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Joined: January-20-2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2119 |
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Posted: January-18-2024 at 9:04am |
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If it was me i would loose the Ford platform and move on to something more accessible as far as being able to buy parts for. yea some will say ford parts are reddily available. they are but bang for the buck you can find complete closed cooled chevy engines ready to rock. one thing to realize is that PCM does have adapter mounts that allow a GM engine to drop in the holes where the ford was. I have a 93 shamrock that i pulled the ford out of and dropped a indmar tbi in with the pcm mounts and adapted a FCC to the fuel supply side. all told i was under $10k with a 350 hour pull out engine from a wrecked prostar. We run in salt water here in the redneck riveria but the power package is raw water cooled. we are pretty anal about our flush and cleanup after usage. we also have a unique launch area as there is a fresh water lake damed off the bay. I can launch on the salt side and when i pull the boat out i can re-launch on the fresh side and run the boat and flush the everything as well as wash down the decks..
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Hobby Boats can be expensive when the hobbyist is limited on their own skill and expertise.
1993 Shamrock "fat" 20. 2008 Nautique 196 5.0 |
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tryathlete
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Joined: April-19-2013 Location: Lake Villa, IL Status: Offline Points: 1797 |
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Posted: January-29-2024 at 8:57pm |
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Cool setup with the fresh water pond
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Hellerides
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Joined: June-01-2024 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Posted: June-10-2024 at 3:21pm |
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I have a similar problem with my '91 sport. can you tell me how much kerosene to use and should I add it to the oil that has been changed twice or add it to an empty crankcase? I have an oil pump priming tool to run the kerosene through the engine if you think that's a good idea? So far, I believe it was my intake has rusted through filling the #2 cylinder with water, although I found a little water in all the cylinders. The compression test showed 150 psi on all the port side cyls and the #2 on the starboard side is 50 psi with #'s 1,3,and 4 being about 100-105 psi. I' pulling the intake and the starboard side exhaust manifold and the valve covers in a couple days when the rain slows. Thank You, Billy
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Billy
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: June-10-2024 at 4:39pm |
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On your engine Hellerides, low compression in cylinder #2, low in 3 and 4 it sound like you have a blown head gasket. That is the most likely cause of what you are describing.
Was it overheated in the recent past? An overheat will crush the fire rings on the head gaskets and soon after the gasket blows out or starts leaking. In passenger cars driven daily this type failure shows up within a month normally after the overheat. In a boat? Maybe much longer since they are not used often in some cases.
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Hellerides
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Joined: June-01-2024 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Posted: June-10-2024 at 7:19pm |
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Thanks for replying! I'm working on it tonight so I'll know more in the morning. BTW, I read where kerosene was used to flush out the water, but I don't know how much to use and should the crankcase be empty. Also, should I prime the kerosene with my oil pump priming tool?
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Billy
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: June-11-2024 at 4:02am |
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I am steering clear of the kerosine plan. Repair the engine change the oil and run it. At 160* water should evaporate fairly fast unless you still have a leak putting more in.
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Jonny Quest
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Joined: August-20-2013 Location: Utah--via Texas Status: Online Points: 2979 |
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Posted: June-11-2024 at 2:21pm |
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Agreed. Mark is right: steer clear of kerosene. Change the oil a couple of times with WalMart cheap-o oil and filter. Go with good oil and filter after that.
JQ
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Current
2003 Ski Nautique 206 Limited Previous 2001 Ski Nautique Open Bow 1994 Ski Nautique Open Bow Aqua skiing, ergo sum |
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Hellerides
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Joined: June-01-2024 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Posted: June-11-2024 at 5:40pm |
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Thanks guys, I was a little leary of the kerosene myself. I've already changed the oil twice and it's looking better. I continue to turn it over by hand. I've also sprayed all the bolts with penetrating oil for when I take the rest of it apart. Just need a break in the weather. I'm in Orlando. It hasn't overheated since I've had it. I actually drove to Corpus Christy, Texas to pick it up. I understand now why I got such a good deal on it. It's a beautiful boat. It actually ran great until it didn't. Thanks again for the advice!!
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Billy
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MrMcD
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Joined: January-28-2014 Location: Folsom, CA Status: Offline Points: 3750 |
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Posted: June-11-2024 at 5:57pm |
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Engine problems are easy, just unbolt the bad stuff and fix it. Making a boat look brand new is much harder and more expensive.
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Hellerides
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Joined: June-01-2024 Location: Orlando Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Posted: June-13-2024 at 1:36pm |
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So true, I remember my dad telling me "chrome don't get ya home".
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Billy
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