Adirondack Marine in Lake George |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Has anyone ever done business with these people? I always heard good things about them. I have know the owner Tom Roach for more than 15 years, and bought thousands of dollars of boards etc from him. When I bought my last Nautique I was not able to buy from him because I lived in NJ. When Nautique had dealer rules. Now I live up here, and I just tried to buy a used boat from them. I made a deal with Drew the salesman at a boat show on Sunday and set up a water test for Thursday. I called him today to set the time, and he tells me they sold the boat to someone else? How can you sell a boat to someone else when you already made a deal with me? Not to mention that I asked him at the show if he needed a deposit, and he said no. and the answer I got when I talked to Tom, was "oh well, there will be others". This was a boat at a killer price that I was going to fix, so there aren't going to be "others". So if you do any business with them, I'd suggest you get it in writing, and force a depost on them, or you to could get what I got.
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21165 |
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I think this is good advice any time you buy a boat, period. Anything short of that leaves the door open for someone else to step in and snatch it out from under you... which can suck- been there, done that. Of course, Ive been on the other side too... its pretty common for someone to say "I want to buy your boat" and then simply not buy it for any myriad of reasons. When dealing with anyone but a very close friend or family member, the deal simply isnt done until cash is in hand. Thats just business! It sounds like you had a verbal agreement with contingencies (water test). Thats not a very strong position to be in, especially when it comes to a hot commodity- like used boat at a "killer price". Keep in mind that when dealing with a dealership, there are multiple salesmen, who may not all talk to each other about potential deals in the works- so even if your word was gold, it may not have been understood that the boat had been spoken for to everyone who was trying to sell it. Just another reason to get it in writing and put a deposit down. Tom Roach and company are good people- Im sure they didnt cause you frustration on purpose. Considering their reputation around here (they have donated a lot of time, money and effort into several Northeast Reunions) I suspect that your story wont carry a ton of weight. Im not sure what youre trying to accomplish anyways- airing dirty laundry is poor form. |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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No one buys a boat without a water test. more specific, with 1500 hrs on it. when you ask if you need money and are told no, you don't expect to get screwed out of a deal. There is a single salesman. There was no miscommunication. The same guy made a deal with me, and turned around and sold it to someone else 2 days later. I'm well aware of Tom Roach reputation. as I said, I've know him for 15 years, very very well. Thats why I didn't have a problem dealing with him. Shame on me. This is NOT the way that CC used to do business, or allow their dealers to do business. Dirty Laundry? not hardly. Just facts of how not to do business. The last Nautique I bought was ordered by the dealer. he asked for not a single dime in deposit, and didn't sell it out from under me. and needless to say it cost a lot more than a 12 year old one. |
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TRBenj ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21165 |
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Actually, I think your post fits the definition perfectly. This "discussion" serves no purpose but to drag someone else's name through the mud. Adirondack is not likely to do anything for you based on this thread (its unlikely they'll comment or even see it), and you certainly dont seem interested in hearing other points of view. Youre just looking for a soap box. All of my dealings with Adirondack have been extremely positive. Theyre about as low key and easy going as it gets- if anyone is going to do business with a handshake, its them. Thats certainly not the norm in business these days though. If, for whatever reason, they sensed you were a tire kicker, they would have been foolish to turn away another ready, willing and able buyer. FWIW, Ive purchased many boats without a test drive... not that I would necessarily recommend doing so, but sometimes the deal is good enough to take the chance. |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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I don't expect them to see this or comment on this. Just showing how you can get screwed with as you said "a handshake". I thought it was good to. Clearly its not. and all my dealing with them since 1998 have been positive till now. Maybe things have changed? maybe not. I don't know. If you call a handshake and "its a deal" a tirekicker, when you have known that person for 15 years, while, I don't know what to say. I don't understand where I'm not listening to an other point of view? what other point of view are you making? Let me give you a time line on your comment of "they could lose a sale". They get me on Sunday saying its a deal pending water test. I will call on Wed to confirm based on weather. then they get another customer who had no deal but had looked at it, and they sell it to him on Tuesday. Tues to Wed is ONE day. so you tell that customer, its yours IF they guy we have a handshake deal with doesn't call on Wednesday. Based on the boat and the price, if that lost a sale to that customer, I'd be really surprised. What I just said would have been the "right" way to handle it. The guy who made the deal first would have bought it, unless it failed water test. If it failed water test, while that becomes a whole different story for everyone. |
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bhectus ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July-04-2010 Location: Gator Country! Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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If I had a dollar for every customer order that was called in to me that I ended up having to put back on the shelf or sending back to the vendor and incurring restock I'd be rich. Like Tim said, the deal's not done until the money's exchanged. Sorry you had to go through this but if I was the dealer I would have probably taken the chance to sell the boat too. I will agree that it was probably in poor form to not at least blow a phone call in to you real quick, but I am just an outsider looking in and don't have both sides of the story.
I will also agree that it is in poor taste to air out stuff like this on a public forum. It doesn't do much to support your cause or build your reputation on here. |
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'02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold
'87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
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Bri892001 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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Adirondack is one of a handful of dealers whose inventory I track out of curiosity. I'm guessing the boat in question is the yellow 196 towards the bottom? http://www.adirondackmarine.net/pre-owned-boats.php
They had originally listed that, along side the blue, as "Project Boats." Although, with the additional pictures of the yellow, it's not as bad as I thought it would be. Anyway, given that they are coming right out and admitting the boats are not in the greatest condition, they were probably very anxious to turn them over to the first cash-in-hand buyer with a solid offer. |
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Gary S ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: November-30-2006 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 14096 |
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I realize you have to vent but the fact you have never participated on here before makes it seem you have a axe to now grind. It's just a boat, maybe it just wasn't ment to be. |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Yup, thats the boat. They skipped a few pictures that make it rougher than those show, but if you have the ability to fix it (I do) its a great deal. someone want to tell me why they didn't tell me they needed a deposit when they did a handshake deal with me? or tell me that someone else was looking at it, and I better come up with a deposit. Nope, just agree to it and then not stand behind their word. Handshake work at every dealer up here. Clearly not there. |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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So you don't think its right to call out a dealer that does this? You don't think people should know about questionable ways of doing deals and backing out of them for what ever reason? |
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8122pbrainard ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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I agree that this not the place to "air out" you own personnel problems so, give up! Plus, you not filling in your profile completely, we have no idea of your age. Did you ever consider that a deposit would be appropriate rather than the hand shake? Modern day business may require the $$!! Grow up and don't complain on this site due to your own problem. |
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bhectus ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July-04-2010 Location: Gator Country! Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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No, I don't. It makes you sound like my 3 month old when she doesn't get her bottle right away. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! ![]() Life's full of bad deals. Move on and find another deal. |
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'02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold
'87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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This is a personal problem when a dealer does this? I don't think so. Its a DEALER problem. Its called ethics. Not giving my age? what business of yours is that? There are multiple dealers in powersports here in upstate NY. Its a "small" area. They all deal by handshake and their word. When a dealers salesman tells me its a deal, I take him at his word. Why would I give a deposit when they tell me its not needed? |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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You are hysterical. I'm whining because a dealer went back on his word, and I try and put that out, and then the best you can do is the quoted post above? I can't believe that you people actually think its okay that a dealer would do this. Good thing the Meloons are selling MC's now. They dealt on handshakes and stood by their word. |
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DrStevens ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October-15-2011 Location: Columbus, OH Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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Wow, I was going to post an opinion about this thread, but I will crawl back under a rock and keep my mouth shut.:s]
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bhectus ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July-04-2010 Location: Gator Country! Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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Nothing is ever my fault, I want things for free, I am entitled. That boat was owed to me! I'm suing.
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'02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold
'87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
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bhectus ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July-04-2010 Location: Gator Country! Status: Offline Points: 1809 |
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I drive by there every day. Why don't you call down here to them and ask how things are going lately. |
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'02 Ski Nautique 196 w/ 5.7 Apex bowtie - Sold
'87 Barefoot - sold '97 Super Sport Nautique - originally custom built for Walt Meloon '97 Ski Nautique '83 SN 2001 |
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Bri892001 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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I agree that it sounds funny. I bought my boat from White Lake Marine over the phone, and they told me they'd hold for me without a deposit (or even a handshake in this case) and they did. I would have been upset as well if they didn't.
It's hard to blame the dealer though really. These are tough times, and they've been tough for a while. If the cash is in front of you... right here, right now, today, well the mortgage aint gonna wait till Wednesday. If you want a good deal, on a nice Ski Nautique in the Northeast, I'd keep my eye on this: http://www.maccallumsboathouse.com/Preowned_Detail.cfm?ID=1037 from another dealer I track. If history serves as a solid predictor, it will be nice, and it will be spoken for within a week after the pictures get published. |
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Bri892001 ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: September-27-2008 Location: Boston MA Status: Offline Points: 4947 |
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And, if you're comfortable doing interior work, White Lake has been sitting on the 97 for quite some time. Make an offer!
http://www.whitelake.com/detail.asp?id=275 |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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THANKS!!! Great link. One I hadn't seen. I appreciate the help!!! |
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quinner ![]() Grand Poobah ![]() ![]() Joined: October-12-2005 Location: Unknown Status: Offline Points: 5828 |
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Maybe I am missing something however the situation as described should not have happened dealing with a CC dealer, particularly to a customer of 15 years. If nothing else the salesman owed mystery man of unknown age a phone call and the right to first refusal. He trusted a salesman from a very reputable dealer, does not sound that ridiculous to me??
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Never wanted it for free. They set the price and I agreed to it I'm entitled to the deal that the dealer agreed to . I didn't ask for anything more, and certainly not anything less. |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Same thing I thought. As everyone seems to think its important, I'm 58 years old. Had multiple boats for the last 20 years, including 2 Nautiques. Been to CC's plant (old one) on a private tour with Gary Meloon, had personal skiing lessons with Andy Mapple and met with the Meloons (Walt/Gary, and a owner of at the time NE Correct Craft) because they were happy with some quotes I made that they used in promo material and wanted to meet me when I was in Orlando to ski with Mapple. Bought my 2nd Nautique from a dealer now gone, in NJ, because Tom Roach at Adirondack wouldn't sell me one, because even though I came to Lake George ever year for vacation for 20 years, before I moved here, I lived in NJ, and Nautiques rules at the time were that you bought where you lived. Want any more info? Ask. |
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Dreaming ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May-21-2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Status: Offline Points: 1870 |
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Welcome to the site! I too agree that this is a poor way to do buisness. While I can understand what you are saying, it is possible that said "buyer" had already been in contact with the salesman? there may be more to the story here that you don't know. A good deal on a boat that needs work is not necessarily hard to come buy, I would take your case to the dealer's sales manager, share your beef with him calmly, and tell him that you are dissapointed with the way it all worked out. Ask if he will make it right for you. If you are realistic with how he can make it right, you may win a friend and be able to see that the heart of the dealer is to take care of their customers. Bad deal in poor judment? Yes probably, but don't throw the dealer out the window because of the salesman's bad judgement. you've dealt with this team for 15 years, I think you owe them the opportunity to make it right. On another note, I am getting tired of all the newbies getting their balls busted by a certain GP... Pete, did you get some new pants recently? They must have come from the cranky pants pile... I love your wealth of knowledge, and appreciate your advice, but could do without the axe it seems you are grinding on... |
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Bakchose ![]() Gold Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November-04-2004 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 554 |
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I agree with everything Kris (Dreaming) has said and I couldn't have said it better. Thanks Kris. I inquired about the boat in question back in the begining of July. It was originally listed for $7,500.00 with no pictures. It was on the website all summer. If it was such a great deal it would have sold months ago. They sent me a bunch of pictures and you might have dodged a bullet. Boats that end up in that condition mostlikely don't get the basic maintenance (how old is the transmission oil). The 1996 they have listed looks to be in better shape and cheaper. Maybe if you follow Kris's advice they'll drop the price to right a wrong. Good luck. I've been screwed out of a good deal by a dealer. It pissed me off, but, a year later I found a killer deal.
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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I saw it with no pics as you did and wondered. I didn't start looking hard till Sept, and by then pics were up. It was a camp boat so we both know why it had the interior beat up. engine/trans was why I wanted water test to see what it did. 1000 hrs showing on the replacement gauges so guess was 1500-2000 total. The only reason I think it sat, was because when you walk up to it and see the interior, its horrible. everything but the seat cusions need redone. The coming pads are really really bad. My wife looked at it for 2 minutes and went back and sat in the truck. I don't see a 96. I see the 1998 ski. When I looked at the boat the first time, one of their mechanics that worked on it was there, and told me what they had done to the 2000. He told me that the 98 was REALLY rough. |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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Thanks!!! I talked to the owner, and didn't seem to get anywhere. Maybe down the road, when my blood pressure drops back down, I will contact him and see what he will do on something. Right now, he only has a single boat even close to my price range, and in that range, there are a bunch out there. This is a pure play toy. my days at 28 off 34 mph are long gone. I just want to ski and pull friends. and have fun with it. but of course I "have" to have a TSC hull, so I have 97-2001 to chose from. ![]() |
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C-Bass ![]() Platinum Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November-18-2008 Location: Columbus, IN Status: Offline Points: 1248 |
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If that really happened the way you say, then you have every right to be pi$$ed off. They should have called you and given you right to first refusal, just as Quinner said. Have you called them? What was their response?
All that aside, even though I empathize with you, it still is bad form to come on here as a new member with the sole purpose of dragging someone through the mud. That's most likely why you've met the resistance (ball busting). Stick around a while. Many here will help you find another good deal. |
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zone 5 ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: September-15-2012 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 32 |
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yes, I've talked to the saleman and the owner. I joined this forum after years with other boats on other forums, because I anticipated by this time today being done with water test and owning a Nautique again. The forum wasn't joined with the single purpose of what Adirondack did, but it came out that way, when I found out I was NOT going to be owning a Nautique this weekend. |
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daddyo ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September-09-2008 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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Just throwing this out there--maybe the issue was the conditional "water test"? I think there's a big difference in saying I'm buying the boat on thursday vs. I'm buying it on thursday if it checks out. Sure, they should have called you, but flip the argument around--what if you drove the boat on thurs and then passed on it? Then they're out a sale on a boat that's been taking up space for awhile because the guy that showed with the money earlier is now down the road. Then they're the ones posting on here throwing you under the bus
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