73 Skier Restoration |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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From what I can tell most guys are using bilgekote brand paint for the bilge. Does US composites sell a version? My resin and cabosil came yesterday and of course my golden glass hookup could not get me what I needed so I am putting in what I hope to be my final order today and would like to get it all in one shot.
If bilgekote is the preferred paint- how many gallons do I need to get for my 16 foot skier? How many coats should I use? How much primer do I need? IF using an airless sprayer to apply, will I need the thinner? Thanks guys! |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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I think I got two coats and had leftovers with a quart. I used white. While it looks nice initially, i had a rear main and a front trans leak all summer, so it doesn't look as good as it once did. I keep telling myself I will use gray on the SN, but we'll see. It is really thick stuff, so spraying would require thinning. Brushing is fine too as it will settle out pretty nice. It is just the bilge afterall. You will want to fair out your bilge a bit to get it smooth.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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Keegan, I forgot to mention in my email that you wont need a full gallon for the bilge... a quart should be plenty. I didnt use primer- just wiped it down with acetone first. One coat covered great- but 2 wouldnt be a bad idea. I bought a gallon and barely made a dent in it. I brushed it on and it came out very nice- no brush marks, etc. I wouldnt hesistate to do it the same way again.
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I may have several questions today to finalize my orders. Thank you for all the help.
What size rollers do you guys suggest? There are so many to choose from. A friend of mine who used to do fiberglass car body work said he would use a squeegee, but it sounds like most guys are using rollers, and this application is probably very different from body work. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Keegan.
I have used the bilgekote on 2 SN 2001 bilges. Cleaned well with soap and water. wiped with acetone, no primer. This has worked well for me and I applied with a brush. I was told this paint requires thinner and a respirator if you spray it so be careful there. I purchased white and gray and blended to get a lighter color gray. Bilges look like brand new, glossy and slick after 3 coats. (no thinner) I would not mess with a roller because you will need a brush also. Dennis |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Great news about only needing a quart of bilgekote. I am fine with brushing it on and it sounds like that is the way to go anyway.
My big question now is what size fiberglass rollers do I buy? They come in so many different widths and diameters. Also is there any difference between the more expensive detail rollers and the economy ones? They both have aluminum heads. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Dennis, I believe Keegan is asking about the rollers used for rolling out the glass/resin and not a paint roller for the Bilgekote. Keegan, Since your working in a small area, stick to a small roller. 3". Keep a squeege handy too and try both. The nice thing about the squeege is you can use it to remove excess resin. The bad thing about it is they have a tendency to pull the glass out of place. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Thanks again guys. Just one more question about rollers
3/8ths", 1/2", or 3/4" diameter? |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Keegan & Pete
On my 88 SN I just finished the stringer and floor on I found the rollers were a PITA after using 2 of them and discovering I could not clean the rollers I felt I would use two many rollers with the multiple applications and mixings. I had great success just using the ribbed roller used to roll out the air pockets. If you pour the resin out of the mixing cup then you can move the resin around the mat where it is needed. This is just what I did and it worked very well for me. When done with the roller placed in a mixing cup with acetone to clean and it is ready to reuse. I purchased 8 roller sleeves and only used 2 Dennis |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Personally, I hate the resin rollers. Just hate.
You do need the ribbed rollers for bubbles though. It is hard to determine what you are asking about. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Maybe I am confused about when to use the rollers. I thought every layer of cloth basically needed to be rolled after being wetted out and applied to the surface? DO you only need to roll when you get an air bubble or do they happen all the time?
I am going to get a little practice repairing the fiberglass molds in my seats before this new US composites order comes in. Also how much 5200 do you guys think I will need to seal everything that needs to be sealed on a 16 footer, including under the rub rail? |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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You need to roll the wetted out glass after you fix it to the stringers. This sets it down better, and you also roll out most of the air bubbles that do appear.
The other rollers are for the wetting out process, getting the eopxy onto the fabric. This is what I hated. I would rather just slobber it on with a brush. That is just me though. You can get 5200 at Home Depot in a caulking tube. I would think one would be more than enough to do everything you need to do. |
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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82 Nautique 1
Senior Member Joined: January-06-2007 Location: Rock Island, IL Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Keegan,
Wakeslayer is correct use the roller on all lifts of glass. You will see that as you roll it in the color of the mat changes as you roll the bottom resin in and you start to roll in resin in top. This is using the ribbed roller. The other roller that is nappy like a paint roller is what I refered to as a PITA. The nap roller will not seat in the mat and resin Dennis |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I agree. I am not going to use rollers to wet out. I have already bought a box of 4 inch and 2 inch chip brushes at harbor freight. I was referring to these
There are detail and economy. They are both aluminum headed- is their any difference besides that the detail ones have threaded ends for an extension poll which is useless? Here is the link to the US Composites page with all of the fiberglass rollers. Sorry I was not clearer about that earlier. Is there a diameter that is best suited for this application? Do you guys use the corner roller? |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Thanks for all the help today. I was in a scramble to order my glass and related accessories today so I have them for spring break next week.
I am getting the seats ready for my upholstery guy. I need to make some repairs to the fiberglass before handing it over. I know this is a silly thing to do but why not. Look at that shine! I got some jack stands at harbor freight for $20 a pair and leveled the boat and lifted it off the springs a bit so that when I am in it it stays level. |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Keegan,
I can't see where the seat tubs need repair. Are there cracks in the corners or at the mounting holes? Keep in mind that if they cracked once, it's a stress point and the repair needs to be stronger that the original. Epoxy resin and more thickness. The upholstery will cover the repair. Route out the cracks and lay glass/resin on both sides. |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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Keegan, snap a few more pictures of those seats... theyre a bit different than the bare bucket that Reid sent me. Interesting!
If you also want to brace the hull (not just level) then I would suggest 2 more jack stands in the front, all the way out at the edge of the hull. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Here is a good picture of one of the worst cracks. When I am putting the epoxy and glass on there, I am going to need to clamp it to make it stay in the right position. What will release from the resin? I have tons of heavy duty wax paper. Can't remember what Roger uses in all his fabrication. WIll have to go back and look.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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Wax paper will release better than anything else Ive tried.
Be sure to grind that crack out (down to a knife edge sharpness) before laying new glass. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Good deal. A PO had poured resin into one of the cracks at some point without any glass, so I had to grind all that out. I ended up sanding down the entire shell, rinsed, washed with hot soapy water and plan to wipe down the entire thing with acetone before applying new glass. I am going to basically re-wrap the entire thing with a couple of extra layers of cloth at the breaks. They are in pretty bad shape with all the mount holes that have been drilled over the years. WTF!! As with everything else- it should be better than new once I am done.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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Personally, I wouldnt bother wrapping the whole thing. That will take quite a bit of glass and be a PITA at all the edges and curves. Id put a layer or 2 over the holes, fix the cracks, reinforce the weak points and call it a day.
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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You are right. All of the cracks are on the seat bottom and the sides that angle up to the seat back. No need to wrap the back but the bottom will need it on top and bottom.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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Yup, the angle between back and bottom is the weak point. Thats where Reid's bucket was busted too. Id add a few layers in that area at a minimum. Not sure Id bother with more than one on the bottom though- I think one layer of mat would be enough. It will be sandwiched between 2 layers of wood, so there wont be much stress on it.
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FrankT
Senior Member Joined: September-07-2006 Status: Offline Points: 245 |
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When your done don't let anyone sit on the back of the seat - my kids are the worst. If you can't sit in the seat and see over the bow you can't drive.
FrankT |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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Some of the cracks go all the way from the angles down into the bottom. I bought some cloth and mat at Home Depot. My thinking was to use mat on the bottom and top o the base and cloth to reinforce the breaks since cloth is stronger. Does that sound like the way to go? I will post pictures as I go.
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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Why is it that so many people feel the need to kneel, stand or sit on the seat back to see over the windshield? Whats wrong with sitting in the seat and looking through the windshield as intended? Sorry, just a pet peeve, rant over! |
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WakeSlayer
Grand Poobah Joined: March-15-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2138 |
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Kind of like a dog likes to hang his head out the window and let their tongue wag in the wind.
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Mike N
1968 Mustang |
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79nautique
Grand Poobah Joined: January-27-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7872 |
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I would grind out the crack and open it up some. Lay a piece of cloth down on the seat bottom so it's flush across the gap/crack, then fill the crack with mat pre-pregnated with epoxy to fill the entire area, then go over the top of that with another piece of cloth. |
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Keeganino
Grand Poobah Joined: October-27-2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2063 |
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I have been guilty of sitting on the seat back a million times, and was surprised that it still felt so solid, and to see how many cracks there were. It was springy but never made any cracking noises or felt like it was going to give. As with many things that Po's and my self used to do to this boat will now be off limits!
Like Mike said there is something about the feeling of sitting up high- in the wind with a commanding view. Kind of like "mouth of tired dog"-Borat |
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"working on these old boats may not be cost effective but as it shows its what it brings into your life that matters" -Roger
1973 Skier |
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8122pbrainard
Grand Poobah Joined: September-14-2006 Location: Three Lakes Wi. Status: Offline Points: 41045 |
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Mine too!! Plus, it always seems it's the tubers that do it the most. I/O'rs are right behind them most likely due the fact they don't know what the trim button does!! Besides that, it's illegal in may states. Wisconsin you can't even sit on top of the dog house beyond SNW speeds! |
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