learning to barefoot |
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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Boom height should not cause slamming or bouncing. Higher is easier. Speed is likely too fast. Spray from between the legs should be coming up like a geyser if the speed is right. No spray = too fast. Water flowing slowly onto your back = too slow. Make sure your arms are straight and you're not chicken-winging, that'll exacerbate a poor plane.
Lower the boom height once you're consistent. It'll help prepare you for the long line. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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I didn't like the boom too high going backwards either. Seemed like I could never establish a good plane, no weight/pressure on the feet for the plant. Felt like I was sliding around on my stomach. It's also nothing like longline so you're doing yourself a disservice with it abnormally high.
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Yeah Thanks guys. I have an ECI boom so the clamp wont fit on the fly high. So I run the clamp all the way down so that we can run the fly high.
Adam is going to pick up a barefoot sanger Saturday which I am super excited about by the way but we will be using his boom and his is a BI with the clamp so it can go on the flyhigh so we can put it lower. I felt like I had backwards down with the shoes. If I can get my feet down without slamming them I get up everytime. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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Boom clamp on the Fly High? Why? Put it directly on the pylon where it goes.
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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if you do that then the flyhigh cant slide all the way down isnt that bad for the pylon
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21192 |
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^^yes. Sounds like you need a height adjuster.
There is probably some limit where a higher boom becomes a hinderance but I never ran into that personally. I ran it high when I was still learning. Seipel ran it very high when teaching. The boom does not look too high in the video. If you are slamming your feet, I would check your speed and/or technique. |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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I ran it the same height last week and was fine. Ive been borrowing suits for the last month because barefoot central and eagle have had problems getting mine to me. It is supposed to come in today so im really excited.
I think the suit I used last week had alot more padding. So I was fine but last night it was really painful from when I took my feet off the rope to when I put them in the water so i think I was trying to rush and also keep my hips up to protect myself which made it very tough. I hope my new suit is alot better. Never had this problem before. I thought last week it seemed very easy and I got up every try. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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Don't let the FlyHigh dictate where the clamp goes. good way to break something including bodies. Take it off if it's in the way or get the height adjuster.
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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A new suit will fix it
The one foot...keep looking at the horizon...chin up eyes up and maintain your upper body...dont bend over so much...stand on that one foot Back to front...don't change your grip to do a back to front....to do it correctly get in a comfortable backwards position and let go with one hand and try to stay there...do not turn do not "help" the turn...resist it let the boat turn you...that's how you do a back to front. Try not to turn. |
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This is the life
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Haha I hope the suit fixes it Just got it in last night and fits awesome.
Ill work on the one foots. They are probably my next step. Oh and that back to front was completely by accident. That was not even the way I like to turn. I was screwing around trying to get my upper body turned around and my feet still backwards so I could look at the boat. And when I did that my feet just turned. |
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AAM196
Gold Member Joined: October-23-2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 846 |
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WBC
I didn't go (to Scarpas) school until I was in late 30s and smack my self for not going sooner in hindsight!. I only had a day and a half and learned a ton esp with things I was having trouble with back deeps non dom foot toes etc. and a pro in the boat feeding me tips real time was worth an entire summer of trying on own. Corrected so many things. At least you got shoe skis... I never did.. I recommend because I noticed how many videos you posted in short time frame and you are skiing in bad weather etc... obviously you are newly hooked! Will be the best money you ever spent! |
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GlassSeeker
Grand Poobah Joined: November-26-2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA. Status: Offline Points: 2421 |
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I run an eci bent boom under a flyhigh no prob same for BI...just flip the boom upfor high down for low and you can put the clamp all the way down to the floor...use throwable cushions to adjust up a little. Back deeps might not be the best thing to practice but if you can get up there it does translate into behind the boat if you make the needed adjustments. I dont see why the high boom gets the low brow...its the way to learn so much stuff it's just ridiculous to poo poo it. I have so much fun on a high boom if you told me i couldn't put it up high id have words for you. If you are not cranking your boom up to the high high heavens you're just missin out
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This is the life
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Thanks for the posts. I did not think about flipping the boom good Idea. I think adam is trying to get a height adjuster.
I would love to go to WBC but work time off kinda hinders vacation. I dont get much of it and I dont live close to family so time off usually goes to that. I learned last mid September so almost have been doing it a year. Pretty much did not foot at all this summer only in spring and starting again now. Did alot of 3 event skiing this summer. |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Got my new eagle suit in and it is sweet. Should have went new from the beginning. The padding feels awesome and it glides so well. Did my first LL tumble turn first try with it. It felt pretty easy also.
Even bigger news my buddy adam just got back with a 1991 BF Sanger Outboard with a 225. The boat is sweet. Pulls a footer 47mph so 43mph is easy. It does have not the best holeshot. You have to drag for a while. I do have a couple questions for you guys about the motor. Here is some video. One is a good face plant and the other is the tumble. Tumble turn Face Plant |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Lot of stuff you can do about the holeshot, typically the first solution is propping. Outboard props are WAY different then inboards, as I have come to learn over this last year. The good news is their are a LOT more options, the bad news, it is a lot of trial and error. First lets understand what kind of Motor is on the Sanger. I should probably lobby Keith to set up an "Correct Crafts with Lower Units" section! |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Its an 89 Evinrude Johnson 225hp. Its a carbed V6. He got it from sea level so im guessing it needs rejetted. Maybe a carb rebuild. It has a 4blade stainless steel prop. Im guessing a 5Blade would help it alot. I do know he is thinking really hard about a repower with a brand new 250 or 300. Maybe even within the next year or so. So he does not want to dump money into this motor.
I do know jets are pretty cheap at about 10 bucks a piece. What im not sure is how many carbs this motor has. I do know when the boat gets on plane it seems to run well. So if it is would rejetting make it run better. I know with my motocross bike it seemed to run the same even after I rejetted it. I know the holeshot is manageable but you do take in alot of water to the face on front deeps and im not sure if it could pull 2 ppl up long line. |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Typically, the OMC motors (now BRP) had 3 carbs, sometimes 6. Quickly can figure that out with a model number. High 5 props (5 blade) are really expensive and while you see a huge gain in hole shot you are going to lose a ton of top end. Better off to dial in with pitch on a 3 or 4 blade - but that is going to take quite a bit of trial and error. With regard to the jetting, definitely want to look at that, higher altitude, less O2 better potential to burn it down.
Ok so I can help here, but I am going to need a little more information: -Current Prop (should be a model number either on the face or the side of the hub) minimally pitch (look for a number followed with a "P") -Operating Elevation -Year (that you think it is) -Model Number (usually located on the Mounting bracket) -Engine Serial Number (usually located on a frost plug somewhere on the block - looks like this:) |
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KENO
Grand Poobah Joined: June-06-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11157 |
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I think you really mean "less O2, same amount of gas, it's gonna run pig rich and need to be jetted down (leaner) to get the best performance out of it" |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Thanks for the info if I have time tonight I will try to get some info on the motor. I do know that the Model number is E225PLCED and Ser no is G 02286312. It not mine so I kinda have to only look as much as he allowes and im guessing he is not gonna wanna buy another prop for it but I can maybe talk him into rejetting and maybe rebuilding the carbs with anew carb kit. I know the boat came with like 3-4 other props but I think they are all 3 blades and they are all the painted black metal props. Idk what that metal is but im guessing it wont be as good as the stainless 4 blade.
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Maybe thats just the info on the lower unit.
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Yep, I went the wrong way... Fat as a pig is right... No burn down worry. But definitely want to go with less fuel more air... |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Ok, that model number is a 1989 Evinrude 225HP, If you got it off the mounting bracket I am not surprised, the Johnson was a J225PLCED, so someone could have switched the mounting bracket or the cowl for that matter, either way it is the same engine. Ok, help me out (and keep me from going back through the thread) but what altitude are you operating at? With that information I should be able to get you the jet size - I have to ask my buddy... |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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The black painted props are Aluminum, most V-6 motors over 200HP will spin those so fast that the blades will bend against the water and be very ineffective. You definitely want to run stainless steel props. On the Bass Nautique - which now (due to wet foam) weighs close to 2500 lbs with motor which puts out something around 260HP will spin a 22p Big Ear Chopper (a chopper is a 3 blade prop that gives all kinds of bow lift - the more hull out of the water the faster the boat will go) from 0 to 70 mph in 700 feet. Their is probably more on the top end, but to be honest, I have not figured out how to drive it past 70mph because of the chine walk. I tell you this because with the 225 Johnson, that is probably tired (meaning it is probably ready for new pistons and rings) to get a decent hole shot, you probably want to run an 18p prop, maybe even smaller. The smaller you go the better the hole shot, but the less top end you get - I would think an 18p should top out at 55mph, but really depends on the efficiency of the hull - big and heavy will run slower on the big end and also slower out of the ditch. |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Thanks for the info its really helpful and alot of things I did not know.
We are at 5280 in denver. The boat came from sea level. I know usually in denver you want to go about 10% smaller in jet size. Atleast thats what they say for my motocross bikes. We pulled him today on 2 skis to do a LL bomb out and it felt like it could barely pull him up. It is really lacking in the holeshot department. I bet the motor is also worn out. He is thinking about a repower in as soon as maybe February. So I know he does not want to drop a bunch of money into this thing. But I feel like with a bit of money we could get it running just a bit better. Front deeps you almost get drowned because you have to hold your breath so long. You are under for probably almost 10 seconds. |
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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It shouldn't take near 225 hp to pull up 1 deep water barefooter, something is way wrong.
If your friend is interested in a 1 year old 250 pro xs or a 350 verado let me know, we have 3 of each to get rid of. |
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Thanks I will Let him Know. And unrelated question is there a max speed in a barefoot comp for trick or slalom?
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NCH20SKIER
Grand Poobah Joined: December-16-2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2207 |
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To HW's point my ski buddy Carl runs a 225 on his BF Sanger and pulling my large frame around is not a problem and actually he will often times go down to the 4 blade for a more controlled acceleration.
Something is not right somewhere. |
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'05 206 Limited
'88 BFN |
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skutsch
Grand Poobah Joined: June-19-2008 Location: Racine, WI Status: Offline Points: 2874 |
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Yes, it is a motor from the late 80's, it likely has never had any work (maintenance) done to it. A two cycle motor does not last like a V-8 which is what we are all familiar with. Maintenance includes periodic replacement of pistons and rings. I suspect if you did a compression /lead down test on this motor you would find that the leakdown is somewhere around 20% or more - that is giving up a LOT of horsepower. When you combine that with running the motor at 5K plus altitude when it is jetted for sea level, you are giving back even MORE HP. If he is running a big wheel on top of that (say a 24p or 26p) you are going to see a really BAD hole shot.
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Hollywood
Moderator Group Joined: February-04-2004 Location: Twin Lakes, WI Status: Offline Points: 13520 |
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http://www.heeney.net/Documents/ABCRulebook.pdf
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lcgordon
Gold Member Joined: June-24-2014 Location: Denver Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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Thanks guys. I knew that its probably needs a rebuild plus rejetting and maybe a smaller prop or 5 blade or something. Watching the videos I posted above the flyer takes 7 seconds and the tumble vid is 10sec and thats not the very start of the run, for me to sit up and thats the minimum I feel that I can to not slow the boat down.
And Hollywood I looked at the rule book a few different ones, and it just says there is a max in jump of 45 something and it said that the boat not able to reach 44.7mph is not grounds for a reride. Cant find anything about any max speed. Reason I ask is because a footing friend says max speed is 41 and I dont think thats right. |
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