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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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fair share after right offs and shelters and charities, second homes, 3 homes, boats,? after all the business expenditures such as 8 cars? after that are we talking? I know the rich pay roughly 20% of all federal income tax, it does create incentive when the rich are not taxed as much....
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21189 |
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Youre close. The top 1% of earners paid 38% of all federal income tax in 2008. The top 5% of earners paid 59%. In other words, the top 5% paid more than the bottom 95%. TaxFoundation.org |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Eric, two points I'd like to make. 1st, as long as it's done legally, by the letter of the IRS code, there is nothing wrong with the write-offs you mention. If done illegally, I'm with you, take action. You don't have a problem with a write-off for charitable giving, do you? 2nd, if a person is fortunate enough to make money and buy a second (or third!) home, boats, cars, etc., they are doing that with their hard earned money. What does that have to do with tax rates? Do you mean that if someone has 10 Correct Crafts they should be taxed higher since they had so much money to spend on boats? I'm definitely on board with the wealthy paying their fair share of taxes, but I think in most cases they do - the idea that the rich guy pays nothing in taxes is a crock, not reality. |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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Okie Boarder
Gold Member Joined: August-31-2009 Location: OK Status: Offline Points: 779 |
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eric,
Take away all deductions and let's talk flat tax with no way to write off anything. Then apply the answer to the question... What percentage should the $100K earner pay and what percentage should the $1M earner pay that you would consider fair? |
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65 'cuda
Platinum Member Joined: July-12-2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
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If you go back to the published data on the "1% pay 38%", etc, you will always find that the data states that the top WAGE earners pay these amounts of taxes.
The truly wealthy ( the top 1/10 percent that own 1/4 to 1/3 of the wealth)are not wage earners. They pay primarily capital gains taxes that are currently 15%. using on and offshore assets and great tax attorneys, they pay significantly less that that. Wage earners pay 15.3 percent in taxes just for SSI and medicare. Warren Buffet states that the wealthy have never had it so good. I don't know what the definition of fair would be, but I'm pretty sure that is not it. |
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65 'cuda
Platinum Member Joined: July-12-2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
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There is no doubt that high wage earners are taking it hardest of all, they pay nearly 50 percent all said and done.
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89Ski_Nautique
Senior Member Joined: May-26-2009 Location: Windermere, FL Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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Gang,
Even when you consider the legimate write-offs the The top wage earners have traditionally been paying the most federal income tax. I believe the majority of us here will benefit using the proposed tax rates led by the Rebublican controlled house. (Link to article). Thanks to all those who voted to help regain a Republican controlled house, at a minimum at least the Bush era tax rates will continue. Randy |
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89Ski_Nautique
Senior Member Joined: May-26-2009 Location: Windermere, FL Status: Offline Points: 160 |
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Gang,
Even when you consider the legimate write-offs the The top wage earners have traditionally been paying the most federal income tax. I believe the majority of us here will benefit using the proposed tax rates led by the Republican controlled house. (Link to article). Thanks to all those who voted to help regain a Republican controlled house, at a minimum at least the Bush era tax rates will continue. Randy |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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I guess i look at it in a different way, when your up in the 7 figure a year income, chances are that income is mostly coming from the end result of the sale of some type of product. there are 2 many variables on taxation. we live in a country that gives you those opportunities to produce that type of wealth but with it comes a price or it should.
when we talk about the top 5% of wage earners we a are talking about, professional athletes, actors, bankers, investors and to the likes. Doctors real dont fit in that category, so, to me again to many variables |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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fck, if it was up to me I would clip big mouth Ohprah for 75%
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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harddock
Platinum Member Joined: June-04-2008 Location: Toontown, MA Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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It amazes me that this top 5% make as little as $200,001 individually or $250,001 as a family. |
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BuffaloBFN
Grand Poobah Joined: June-24-2007 Location: Gainesville,GA Status: Offline Points: 6094 |
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What about the guy who sells 'shorter' trees or the guy who sells holes in the ground? Some things are tough to put on an assembly line.
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TRBenj
Grand Poobah Joined: June-29-2005 Location: NWCT Status: Offline Points: 21189 |
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Eric, did you read the article that I linked to? "Including all tax returns that had a positive AGI, taxpayers with an AGI of $159,619 or more in 2008 constituted the nation's top 5 percent of income earners. To break into the top 1 percent, a tax return had to have an AGI of $380,354 or more." |
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63 Skier
Grand Poobah Joined: October-06-2006 Location: Concord, NH Status: Offline Points: 4269 |
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Well, we certainly agree on that one! How about a system where, if you are a celebrity, the public votes on your tax rate? Now that would be fun! |
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'63 American Skier - '98 Sport Nautique
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Eric, TR beat me to it but as he illustrates you have to go to less than the top 1% to hit a guy making over a million. but it is not where you place the line. it is just wrong to single out a minority for persecution just because you do not particularly like them. I should not take away half of your transmissions because you happen to have more than me. I should not take away half of a farmers grain harvest becaues he has more than me, same for cc collectors or anything else that a person might have. Why is money different than everything else. If we tax on a straight percentage a guy earning a million will pay 10 times what a guy making 100,000 pays. That seems like he would easily be paying his fair share, having most people paying 15% and nailing the rich guy for 50% is prejudical treatment, and on any other basis than wealth would be considered wrong.
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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harddock
Platinum Member Joined: June-04-2008 Location: Toontown, MA Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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Using obama's numbers the top 2% to be taxed. Those making under $200.000 individual or $250,000. would not see an increase. Therefore the top 2% are those over $200,000 / $250.000. FUZZZY MATH?
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Okie Boarder
Gold Member Joined: August-31-2009 Location: OK Status: Offline Points: 779 |
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Looks like the extension of tax cuts for the wealthy has made it through.
Article Bush tax cuts: $458 billion. The package would extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone for two years, including two years of relief for the middle class from the Alternative Minimum Tax. The estimated cost would be $458 billion, according to earlier numbers from the Treasury Department. The bulk of that cost -- $383 billion -- is for the extension of cuts for families making less than $250,000. The rest -- roughly $75 billion -- is attributable to the extension of cuts that apply to the highest income families. Wait, what? But I thought these were only tax breaks for the wealthy |
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Hansel
Senior Member Joined: September-21-2006 Location: Twin Cities, MN Status: Offline Points: 415 |
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The truth is that nobody who can actually afford it should be getting any tax cuts. Sooner or later the debt collectors will come calling. Then all of us will wish we hadn't been so self-centered. And we'll cry out "Why didn't anybody tell us this was happening?" But we'll only have ourselves to blame. Or maybe, if we are really lucky, we'll all be dead by then and instead of cursing ourselves our kids can do that for us.
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"The only prudence in fishermen is that designed to set the stage for taking yet another, and perhaps a longer, chance." -Aldo Leopold
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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sorry, oprah
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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what could we fund with an extra 20 billion a month?
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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in a way are the Bush tax cuts stimulus money? they are extended for 2 more years. I remember last year when the accountant said this is it, dont expect this kind of return next year....bad thing about though is the money went to bills that were already made and the money wasnt spent on things that would kick the economy. it was nice getting current with the money but....I need a 55" for the wall, maybe next year lol
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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Republicans said extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone, but fking Obama said I will do so if I can extend unemployment for an extra 26 weeeks. Go Figure!! Just creating a lazy country and trying to implament that communist theroy. I have a beer drinking buddy down the street we get toghter every once in a while, he has been on unemployment for quite a long time.Has a wonderful wife that works as a school teacher. We always wonder if he looking for work, he says,"yea I have several offers but either to far away or not enough pay"!! Whats wrong with this picture. Obama and company!! My therory is, work, if even if it is not what you want, flip burgers, push carts at wal-mart do something, keep your mind going annd when we finally do push him out of office the real job will come back around. |
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Eric, Obama is trying to sell his lost battle as a back door stimulus, but I do not know how maintaining the status quo is a stimulus, it certainly will be better than taxing the economy more at this point. paying down bills still puts money into others hands to be spent and spent again. I think you can feel pretty good about that.At least we wont need to bail you out. |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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even the billionaires realize they have so much money they dont know what to do with it, so Buffet and Gates are encouraging other billionaires to give at least half away over the span of their lives.
Ski, no unemployment, no beer, on the other side of the coin if his unemployment gets cut will you let him move in with you? |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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Eric, the key words about the billionaires are to give, not to have it taken away. As for skis friend he will not need to move in with anyone, he has turned down 2 jobs because they were less attractive than unemployment. If he knew the unemployment well was going dry, he would likely snap up one of the other jobs in a second. Why is it your first assumption is that someone will reguire help rather than man up when things get tough? People take the help because it is there and it is easy. |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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skicat2001
Platinum Member Joined: November-24-2008 Location: Ft. Worth TX Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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As Dave stated there, I know there are people that have had some job offers but refuse too because of the unemployment. If unemployment benefits get cut people are more likely too man up, get off there butts and work. I worked for a great company for 4 years and was laidoff in Febuary. I enjoyed the time off but it is not for me. Me too, got lazy and turned down some offers thinking I was better than that and a better job is around the corner. But people do not realize, Obama is a full fledge left winger, that wants to shatter and destroy America and it's background to implament his socialist justice way. Become complety dependent on the goverment. Anyways, after a while, finally took a job working with Kroger Signature grocery stores in customer service department and took a 40% pay cut. I am thankful to be working, I hate paydays it is not what it is used too, but I will survive and was just recently promoted to supervisor. In addtion, I want people to be able to survive through these hard times, but sometimes people are just starting to become way to dependent on govemerment care(Obama's agenda) and milking the system when others are being taxed higher now and could work for lesser money.
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1985 CC 2001-SOLD
Lee Michael Johnson |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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there aint enough jobs to go around.....i bet if we cut the bene's we would definitely see the crime rate go up
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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OverMyHead
Grand Poobah Joined: March-14-2008 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 4861 |
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So Eric, how long should we pay unemployment bennifits? Unemployment by its nature is meant to be temporary,It seems to me that after 2 years we are beyond temporary and providing welfair so lets put them on that program, then maybe pride would kick in and they would take any job and start over. As an employer you must realize your unemployment payments have gone up about 2000 percent, I know my employers went from .04% to over 8%. I have heard employers saying why would I hire someone knowing I have to pay an additional 8% in unemployment payments. coddleing everyone that is unemployeed is costing us a fortune and hurting the chances of reducing unemployment. |
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For thousands of years men have felt the irresistible urge to go to sea, and many of them died. Things got better after they invented boats.
1987 Ski Nautique |
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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in normal times.....26 weeks, unless you want to see lines forming at the soup kitchen. some of these large companies i.e. Walmart, need to man up and quit working their people 39 hours a week part time and pay into the program....after all in a way they are raping you and then giving you a reach around.
how many do you know that were going into the 25th year of employment with the same company, loyal as hell, and got a pink slip? personally, i would go on a one on one basis. |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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eric lavine
Grand Poobah Joined: August-13-2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13413 |
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you pubby's never mention the Iraq/a-stan thing costing us 20 billion a month and 7 some thousand lives
here is my question, pay for a war or pay for the unemployed? |
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"the things you own will start to own you"
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